whirlwind
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Posts posted by whirlwind
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What could have ever inspired him to throw away everything at that moment, without thinking, without consideration for his actions, or even thinking about the bitterness that was between him and his people. He just got up and went. WHY???
Because he was not only called....but chosen!
Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen."
If chosen by God Himself, as the prophets were, would Matthew have been able to resist?
I don't know if that is the answer but it is one to consider.
You have my attention too........Whirlwind
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I believe in the Rapture because I have faith that God will not punish his children along with unbelievers.
Think about it...if a member of your family got arrested for breaking the law, would the police throw the law abiding members of his family in jail along with him?
No.
God's wrath is to be poured out upon those who reject his mercy and offer of salvation.
"How will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation?" (Hebrews 2:3)
"For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thessalonians 5:9)
Thank you for your reply Kari 19.
I agree with you in that "God will not punish His children along with unbelievers." As the scriptures you wrote tell us.....God has not destined us for wrath.
His wrath is reserved for those that take the mark of the beast:
Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10.The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
His wrath is NOT for His children that did not fall for Satan's deceit. Taking "his mark" simply means to fall for his deception.
Paul tells us that:
1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
From that scripture I believe then that the examples of end times were given to us when Daniel wasn't harmed in the lion's den, when Noah went through the flood, when the 3 Hebrew children were thrown in the fiery furnace but were not harmed.....they went through the wrath but were not harmed. We are His children, He loves us so why would He harm us? He wouldn't.
I do believe that the time of the wrath, when Christ comes at His 2nd Advent, will be a time of great turmoil but I don't believe it will last long at all (Maybe 15 minutes). Remember, He Himself will fight the battle of Armageddon and the battle of Hamangog. As long as we do not fall for Satan's deceit we are standing on the Rock and will pass through that time.
........Whirlwind
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Can anyone tell me the scriptures that support the notion of Rapture? There are people I have spoken to who say they don't believe in it. I for one do, but have never read the word in the bible.
Please respond with Scripture that is the only way I will know for sure that it is a reality.
there is no question that there will be a ''rapture'' or catching away of the saints the problem is that people have distorted the truth to make other hope when they can not confirm there word ezekiel 13:6 there will be a rapture but not b4 the tribulation it will be at the post trib 2nd coming matt 24:29-31,mark 13:24-27 luke 17:26-30, 1st cor 15:20-23,1st cor 15:51-53 1st thess 3:13, 1st thess 4:15-17,2nd thess 1:6-10 2nd thess 2:1-3 and rev 20:4-6
I find I very much agree with Onwingsaseagles.
Scripture tells us that His 2nd Advent is when all of this happens.....if someone wishes to call it a rapture then that is fine but we must know that it does not happen until AFTER the tribulation of Satan.
Satan's tribulation is what Christ refers to as:
Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be
The tribulation of that time is deception, not physical torture. Satan comes to earth pretending to be Christ and he must maintain that facade to trick Christians....and Christians are those he is coming after.
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
He comes to make a spiritual war with Christians....we are the ones that have the testimony of Jesus Christ!
We must know who he is that is masquerading as Christ and wait for the True Saviour. Then, we will be the spiritual virgins He comes for and not have fallen into idolatry by worshipping Satan, even if it is unknowingly.
When someone considers rapture please read the following scripture:
Ezekiel 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; 'Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
How does He do that? How does He "tear them from your arms?" By writing a letter to us that explains what He expects of us in the end of days.....and that is not to "fly away."
........Whirlwind
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I'm in the Military and Saved. I reckon God's cool with that.
t.
I reckon He is!
........Whirlwind
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17 "'As for you, my flock, this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will judge between one sheep and another, and between rams and goats. 18 Is it not enough for you to feed on the good pasture? Must you also trample the rest of your pasture with your feet? Is it not enough for you to drink clear water? Must you also muddy the rest with your feet? 19 Must my flock feed on what you have trampled and drink what you have muddied with your feet?
In His Love,
Suzanne
I hoped that someone else responded before I did but I'll go ahead anyway.
To me this subject has a connection to your other post about Haggai. There it is about the unclean contaminting the clean instead of the other way around. Here He is speaking about false shepherds, false preachers.....they contaminate many.
I believe that the "he goats" (34:17) are those in charge. The politicians and leaders. They are judged right after those first judged...the preachers. He tells us that all they leave the flock (us) is muddy water and trampled pastures. And then they want us to be happy with it!
In other words, they rip off all that they can with illegal means and high taxation. But, God tells them that "As for My flock.....I will judge between the fat catle and between the lean cattle. He will judge between them and the ones they ripped off.
I don't believe that judgment is far away.
...........Whirlwind
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But don't you find the contrasts interesting? You would think that the holy things would have more affect, BUT, it clearly is showing that the unclean/unholy will spoil the WHOLE thing. But, in today's teachings, this portion is dismissed, and the other is being taught. That the bringing and touching of the unclean with the holy, will purify the unclean. That is opposite of what the passage is saying. The passage is teaching to beware of defilement.
In His Love,
Suzanne
Yes it is and I believe should be taught as such. You can love your enemies, or love those that don't follow God by teaching them truth but that doesn't mean become part of that group.
Case in point are the colleges of today. They are so filled with liberal teaching that a young person is easily led away from God's truth and into unbelief. The problem is they must attend classes.
Someone I study with said that Satan has 4 "hidden dynasties" that he works with to corrupt us. They are politics, finance, religion and education. They are really coming to the forefront now and exerting their power, especially on our young people.
So...you are right when you say that the unclean can defile the clean instead of the other way around. I guess the trick is to recognize it for what it is, change what we can and stay away from the rest....all the while asking for His protection! I believe that is what He meant when He said:
Mark 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kngdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
We must pluck out the offending member (of our group, our church, etc.) and not allow it to contaminate the others. You can still love them and instruct them and once they have repented I believe they should be part of the whole again.
It would be as if a family member was involved in drugs. To me it would be wrong to allow that person to remain in your home and perhaps influence younger members. You wouldn't stop loving them but you could not allow their behavior to hurt others.
Anyway, that is how I feel about it........Thank you for the interesting question. (I also like your next one on Ez.34. I don't want to monopolize your post and hope you won't mind my responding to it)
.........Whirlwind
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Haggai 2
11 "This is what the Lord Almighty says: 'Ask the priests what the law says: 12 If a person carries consecrated meat in the fold of his garment, and that fold touches some bread or stew, some wine, oil or other food, does it become consecrated?'" The priests answered, "No." 13 Then Haggai said, "If a person defiled by contact with a dead body touches one of these things, does it become defiled?" "Yes," the priests replied, "it becomes defiled." 14 Then Haggai said, "'So it is with this people and this nation in my sight,' declares the Lord.
(What do you think the point was?)
In His Love,
Suzanne
My understanding of those verses is that God is speaking of building the temple but it also applies to us in the end times:
Haggai 2:7 And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the Lord of hosts.
So...we know He is speaking of the end of days, when the great shaking will occur. Only then will there be true peace. In that day, "If one that is unclean by a dead body touch any of these, shall it be unclean?" meaning...."So is this nation before Me...and so is every work of their hands."
To me He is saying that if a house is full of spiritually dead people...do not touch them! Is our nation full of the spiritually dead, are our churches full of the spiritually dead?
God continues by telling us that:
2:17 I smote you with blasting and with mildew and with hail in all the labours of your hands; yet ye turned not to Me, saith the Lord
Some ask for blessings from Him but are spiritually dead. He wants us to repent and love Him.
.........Whirlwind
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I've often wondered what God thinks of Army's and Soliders in this modern age..? Any suggestions?
Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
51.Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay: but rather division:
Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse; and He That sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war.
There is a spiritual battle going on and has been from the beginning of time. Occasionally that spiritual battle ignites to a full blown fire....that is what we now have! It was not of our making but my understanding of the Word tells us to meet that battle head on.
God is a God of love but He is NOT a powder puff. He has given us rules to live this earthly life by and we should not allow those that do not live by those rules to stop us from doing so.....our enemy wants to do that. When that happened they became our enemy.
Jesus tells us to "love your enemies" but He also tells us:
Luke 20:42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, 'The Lord said unto my Lord, 'Sit Thou on My right hand,
43.Till I make Thine enemies Thy footstool."
So...to me, that means love your enemies if at all possible and at times you must love them enough to show them the right way and that may take a big stick! We are the ones to make "thine enemies thy footstool."
In answer to your question.....I have every confidence that He would approve of our wonderful soldiers and bless our men and woman as they fight for our country. Every night I ask Him for that blessing and ask that the conflict can end soon and they return home. I ask for it but truly can't see an end anytime in the near future. In my heart I believe it will last until the end of days.
........Whirlwind
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EricH thank you for your knowledge and understanding of truth and how it differs from common perception.
I have been reading all the different interpretations of the time of the tribulation with interest. It is amazing how Christians can read one Book and come up with such different ideas. It must be part of God's plan.
Allow me to add another consideration in this mix:
Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
He is teaching about the end of days, the tribulation of Satan and tells us that He will shorten the days. What are the days shortened to?
Revelation 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months; and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
Something to consider
.........Whirlwind
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Teachers ordered to dress up as Muslims
Teachers at a primary school have been ordered to dress up as Muslims to promote multi-culturalism.
The West Midlands school is belatedly celebrating the Muslim festival of Eid and told its pupils and teachers to don traditional Muslim dress for the day.
All 257 pupils, most of whom are Christians, and 41 teachers - two of whom are Muslims - dressed up.
A morning assembly was held to mark the event and an afternoon party was strictly for women only, because Muslim husbands object to wives mixing with other men.
Sally Bloomer, head of Rufford primary school in Lye, West Midlands, told The Sun: "I have not heard of any complaints. It's all part of a diversity project to promote multi-culturalism."
But a relative of one of the staff reportedly said: "Who would put their job on the line? They have been told they have to embrace the day to show their diversity. But they are not all happy."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1770
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Has the whole world gone insane?????
Gee, I wonder if they would allow the teachers to dress up as Biblical figures to show their "diversity?"
Somehow, I doubt it......
Yes....the whole world has gone insane! Do you remember the movie from several years ago. I believe it was called Mosquito Coast with Harrison Ford? He took his entire family into an isolated area to get away from all the insanity.
His story didn't turn out well but there are times I would love to do it myself....just wrap my family up and keep everything else away.
But, we are part of the world and must try to make it better however there are increasing times when it is difficult to even turn the news on.
Btw - I love Kari 19's comment about the what that disgusting poster and a Dodo bird have in common
.........Whirlwind
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'Shlomo'
I don't know how many times I have heard this about the preaching off the 144,000. Scores of times to be sure. When I examine the Bible, I find the following verses pertaining to the 140,000:Rev 7:4-8
The 144,000 witnesses have come up several times in this and other threads, so it's time I asked...
What is the significance of the division of the tribes in Rev 7 ?
For those that believe these are literal Jews.
And those that believe they are not.
There's several questions for both camps.
Obviously, the twelve listed in Rev 7 differ from the original sons of Israel as identified in Gen 49, but they also differ in ways that are not so obvious...
1) The difference that is normally talked about is the omission of Dan, often explained as the result of Jacob's prophecy over him (interpreted as "the antichrist comes from you so you don't get to play in the game...").
But there are others difference too.
2) Levi appears in the list. Which agrees with the tribes by birth (Gen 49) but is different than the tribes by land allocation (recorded in Joshua) - where Levi is removed and Joseph is represent by the two "half-tribes" his sons Manasseh and Ephraim.
3) Even though Levi and Joseph are included in the list of twelve in Rev 7, one of the half-tribes of Joseph is still there - Manasseh, but not Ephraim.
4) Simeon appears in the list in Rev 7, even though his tribe has (apparently) completely disappeared following the civil war in the time of Solomon's son Rehoboam (when the ten tribes split off from the United Monarchy to create the northern kingdom of Israel - listed as the nine landed tribes Zebulun, Issachar, Asher, Naphtali, Dan, Manasseh, Ephraim, Reuben and Gad, and some members of Levi who had no land allocation. But the Bible makes no reference at this point to the Tribe of Simeon, leaving many to believe that the tribe had already disappeared due to the curse of Jacob.
So I am very curious to hear how different people interpret these twelve specifically named Tribes - both from a literal and a symbolic perspective.
shlomo
I'm "from the camp" of those that believe the 10 northern tribes or, house of Israel, are not Jews. You've raised an interesting question and there isn't much I can add to it.
Someone I study with lightly touched on the subject once and said that Dan and Ephraim are left out because of idolatry but they are again listed during the millennium (Ez.48).
I also am curious to hear what people say in answer to your question.
...........Whirlwind
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if you're ready for Christ to return at any moment, you purify yourself with that hope...that's what the early Church believed, and that's what I believe
can someone answer this: if the 24 elders in Revelation 4 don't represent the Church, WHO DO THEY REPRESENT?
The 12 Disciples and the 12 Patriarchs of the 12 tribes. Or, maybe the Prophets and Moses, Enoch, etc. The possibilities are there but the idea of it being or representing the church doesn't make a great deal of sense, at least to me.
As far as believing Christ can return at any moment, I think all of us hope and prepare for that. However, that doesn't mean He will rapture anyone. Also, there are certain things that must happen, according to Biblical prophecy....such as the two witnesses. But, who knows, they could already be here
And too, consider this. When Christ arrives, at His 2nd. Advent, all will be changed:
1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52.In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
If we are ALL changed does that mean ALL (the good, bad and ugly) or ALL that believe in Him? I personally believe it means everyone. If it is everyone then how much of the wrath will some experience? Will we be changed at the instant of His arrival, as it sounds, or after the wrath? Even if it is after the wrath we must remember that He isn't angry with us....His wrath is reserved for those that took the mark of the beast.
Lots to consider...
...........Whirlwind
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Because God's Word had not yet been compiled doesn't mean it had not yet happened. It was history when it was compiled and written. So...because Gilgamesh was written before the Torah was written doesn't make the Torah a copy of Gilgamesh.
I did not mean to imply that the Torah was a rip off of Gilgamesh, I only meant to correct what was earlier implied...which was that the Epic of Gilgamesh was somehow a twisted version of God's Word. They are two completely seperate documents (speaking of Gilgamesh and the Torah) in themselves, granted the Epic of Gilgamesh is much much older.
Thank you for the clarification.
Most do assume that the Bible was taken from it, instead of the other way around.There is an interesting book, "Sargon the Magnificent." In it the author puts forth the possibility of that first "Sargon" actually being Cain.
If true, that would account for the similarities in the Genesis narrative............Whirlwind
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Gilgamesh is said to have been "written" before the Bible....that doesn't mean the events "happened" before the true events, as given to us in Genesis. The true events weren't written until the time of Moses, as far as I know.
So....consider the twisted story that Gilgamesh tells. It is just a contorted view of the truth of God's Word that Satan uses to keep souls from God. All of the mythological gods are for that purpose - to keep souls from God.
You are correct, The Epic of Gilgamesh was written far before the bible...something like 2500 years before. How then is it a distorted version of God's word when "God's Word" hadn't even been compiled yet?
Because God's Word had not yet been compiled doesn't mean it had not yet happened. It was history when it was compiled and written. So...because Gilgamesh was written before the Torah was written doesn't make the Torah a copy of Gilgamesh.
.....Whirlwind
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And the hammurabi codes
Someone tried to throw this in my face as a reason to why the bible was false
Could someone please break down what they think about this subject to me? It's bugging me
Gilgamesh is said to have been "written" before the Bible....that doesn't mean the events "happened" before the true events, as given to us in Genesis. The true events weren't written until the time of Moses, as far as I know.
So....consider the twisted story that Gilgamesh tells. It is just a contorted view of the truth of God's Word that Satan uses to keep souls from God. All of the mythological gods are for that purpose - to keep souls from God.
My personal view is that these stories are from Cain. When he was thrown out of Eden he "builded cities" and that city was in all probability Babylon, which means confusion.....and look at the confusion of God's truth that has come from it. He knew the true story but was led by Satan and developed a twisted version and that same version is keeping others from the Father even today.
On another site I am astounded by young people that truly seem to believe those ridiculous stories and don't believe the Bible because of them. Satan's plan is working very well!
So....that's my story and I'm sticking to it
(until someone with true knowledge and not just speculation comes along).........Whirlwind
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I don't know how many times I have heard this about the preaching off the 144,000. Scores of times to be sure. When I examine the Bible, I find the following verses pertaining to the 140,000:
Now, what I see is that they are sealed, that they on Mt. Zion with the Lamb, that they sing a new song before the throne, the creatures, and the elders. That they are undefiled and redeemed from the earth and that the follow the Lamb wherever he goes. There is a fair amount of information about them, but I always wonder where the verse is about them preaching to anyone.
Is there some verse about them that I have missed? I wonder that occasionally, but you said that is clear from Rev 7. It is not clear to me from Rev 7 that they preach to anyone. Would you care to show me those words, or is this just another assertion and assumption that pre-tribbers make to bolster their case, hoping no one will notice that it isn't actually in the bible, but in their heads?
If they are not preaching to the rest of the people on the earth during the time of the Tribulation, who is?
There are only two different sets of earthly witnesses during the Tribulation. The two witnesses, and the 144,000 witnesses.
There are two...well, actually, there is one tribulation (that of Satan) and then there will be the wrath of God. Satan's time of tribulation will be a big love fest....he will be pretending to be Christ so he will come in peacefully and prosperously and trick you with lies and deceit. As Christ said:
Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the begining of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22.And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
That is when Satan will be here. Christ doesn't come until after him and we must wait for the true Christ or we will have taken the "mark of the beast."
The 144,000 are not the ones that will be preaching. Those are they that must be sealed with God's truth before the end can come:
Rev.7:3 saying "Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."
4.And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
They have been worshipping the anti-christ/Satan, believing he was Christ until they heard the testimony of the 7,000 elect. (Matt.24:22) They are the reason the time was shortened. Some of those elect will be taken before Satan for a testimony and the Holy Spirit will speak through them. What is said will bring many to Christ as others will realize they have been mistakenly following Satan.
Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute y ou, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for My name's sake.
13.And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14.Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15.For I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
Also see Mark 13:9-11 and Matthew 24:9-14
Those 7,000 elect are the ones that will testify. The Holy Spirit will speak through them and many will be sealed with God's truth.
............Whirlwind
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i've uncovered the following about edom so far and see from the 2nd paragraph that in present-day geography it lies somewhere inside Jordan or a part of Jordan. i would mainly like to know if the prophesy in isaiah 34 concerning the destruction of edom is a part of history or something to happen in the future. if it is future, then to me, it sounds symbolic - similar to the symbolism of babylon. any answers or ideas would be appreciated.
Edom is Russia. It began in Genesis:
Genesis 25:20 And Isaac was forty years old when he took Rebekah to wife, the daughter of Bethuel the syrian of Padan-aram, the sister to Laban the Syrian.
21.And Isaac intreated the Lord for his wife, because she was barren: and the Lord was intreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceied.
22.And the children struggled together within her; and she said, "If it be so, why am I thus?" And she went to enquire of the Lord.
23.And the Lord said unto her, "Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger."
24.And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb.
25.And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.
30.And Esau said to Jacob, "Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage; for I am faint:" therefore was his name called Edom.
Edom means red or ruddy - the red nation. Esau sold his birthright to Jacob and:
Romans 9:13 As it is written, "Jacob have I loved but Esau have I hated."
The two nations in Rebekah's womb was Russia and America / Esau and Jacob.
Isaiah 34:6 The sword of the Lord is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the Lord hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.
Idumea is Esau/Red - communism, socialism. Bozrah is a fortress of Edom, which is Russia.
I hope that helps a little.......I have to get ready for work now.
...........Whirlwind
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'Shlomo'
Many of your Brothers believe that the wrath of God only comes after the days of tribulation (which according to Jesus don't begin until the middle of the 70th week and don't last to the end of the week because they are "cut short").This leads to a natural (in my opinion and the opinion of many others) timeline of
- 70th week begins with peace treaty
- Days of tribulation begin at the middle of the week following the abomination of desolation (which are the wrath of man)
- Days of tribulation are cut short before the week ends
- First resurrection takes place (which includes the translation - 'rapture' - of the Church)
- Then the Day of the LORD (which is the wrath of God) begins after the Church has been raptured
That literally makes it Post-trib and Pre-wrath !!
shalom
This has been an interesting discussion all of you (or as we say it down here in the deep south - ya'll) have been having. Allow me to add another element to the mix.
I believe the word tells us that we will be here during all of it....including the time of His wrath. But, as He tells us:
Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10.The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence fo the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
His wrath is for those that follow Satan....not His children, those that wait for the true Christ. We also know that Satan can't harm us during his tribulation if we don't believe his lies:
Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Scripture points to the fact that we will all be here and will be tested:
Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on My name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is My People:' and they shall say, 'The Lord is my God.'
So....I believe we will be here but won't be harmed. He will protect as as He did Daniel in the lion's den, the 3 Hebrew children in the fire, etc.....if we don't fall for the deceit of Satan. We have to know that he comes first pretending to be Christ.
.........Whirlwind
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Thaks for the response secondeve.
But I have to admit, your answer terrifies me. (Seriously, that's how it makes me feel.)
Her answer terrified me too....possibly because some of it is true.
"Half angel. Half devil. All human."
Without Christ we can be that.
........Whirlwind
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'Karen C.'
Hi Whirlwind~ The only thing I can give you to read is non canonized.. That would be from the book of Enoch..The book of Enoch was quoted by Jude and also alluded to by Jesus.. It is found in the Ethiopian Bible and also discoved in the Qumran caves..
Blessings, Karen
Wow....ask and ye shall receive. I believe the verses you quoted nail who the demons are. Thank you very much.
Blessings to you too.....Whirlwind
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Interesting thread. However I wonder why this passage has not been brought up yet.
Matthew 8:28 (snip)
It appears here that the demons are know they are awaiting judgment, in Luke 8 this same incident is recorded and the demons do not want to be thrown into the abyss. It almost seems that these demons could possibly be fallen angels awaiting the judgment spoken of in 2 Peter and Jude. The issue would again be brought back to what is mean by bound by chains of darkness. These passages do not give an absolute clarity on the issue at hand but if they did there would be no discussion.
What is your opinion? As they are "awaiting judgment" do you believe they could be souls of terrible humans or the fallen angels? Is there another possibility?
It is an interesting topic!
.......Whirlwind
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demons are earth bound spirits from the dead nephilim. Fallen angels are from a higher level of the demonic kingdom. Those that fell in Gen 6 was to contaminate the human blood line to keep the promised Messiah from coming.
THOSE are bound according to Peter and Jude in Tartarus..
Angels don't inhabit humans, demons do..
I believe you are correct but do you have scriptural backup?
I agree with one of the posters on this thread that speaks about pre-Adamic humans but my understanding of them is just that they are the different races....not ones that demons came from. After all, when God created them He said, "it was very good." I also agree with you in that the fallen angels mated with daughters of Adam in order to contaminate the blood line that would lead to Christ.
So far, the demons being the souls of the nephilim is the best answer. I also wonder if they could possibly be the souls of truly horrid humans (Hitler, Stalin, Jeffrey Dahmer, etc.). My understanding is they couldn't be as all souls aren't yet judged....but it's something to consider.
.........Whirlwind
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I didn't want to necessarily start another divorce and remarriage thread by bringing this up but it does come into the subject matter. So is it right or wrong to leave family and the place you live your kids for the pursuit of righteouness sake or Jesus sake and the gospel's just abandoning the wives and children for a hundredfold. Does this scripture condone divorce or not?
OC
No it doesn't. When Christ was teaching in the story of the camel and eye of the needle He meant being rich with ill gotten gains.
At that time the cities were walled and the main gates closed at night. A small gate was left open and guarded but was only large enough for a man to pass through. His camel would have to be unloaded in order to pass through.....We must unload our ill-gotten gains before going in.
Money meant more to the man in this story than God did. God blesses us, some with riches and some with other things but all are blessings. None of those things should mean more to us than God Himself.
So....my answer would be no, these are not instructions for us to sell everything we own and follow Him.
...........Whirlwind
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what happens to babies if they die?
do they go to heaven?
what is "limbo"?
And this does not mean that any child of a non-believing parent is outside of God's mercy and gracious choice for Heaven. It simply means that only God knows for sure, and certainly babies are entrusted to His loving care.
I really enjoyed reading your post and it has made me think much more deeply on this subject.
Only God knows for sure.
Thank you........Whirlwind
You have my attention too.
Most do assume that the Bible was taken from it, instead of the other way around.
If true, that would account for the similarities in the Genesis narrative.
(until someone with true knowledge and not just speculation comes along)
Rapture
in Prophecy
Posted
Welcome to Worthy and thank you for your reply.
The scripture you quoted from 1 Thessalonians is what some take the rapture idea from. However, the subject of the chapter is about where the dead are, not that Christ is coming to take anyone away.
The word "air," as in "will meet you in the air," isn't the atmosphere but is instead "breath," as in breath of life - your spirit. We will all meet Him in our spirit bodies. Also, "clouds," is just an expression Paul used for crowds of people. He also used that expression in:
Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight.....
So, cloud would be as in a cloud of locust, etc. So...that scripture could be read as, Then we which are alive, and remain, shall be caught up together with them in the crowds to meet the Lord in our spirit bodies...
That is difficult for those that have been taught rapture to believe but Paul further addresses it in his very next letter to the same people....
11 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethern, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
2.That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter, as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3.Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,
He tells those that didn't understand his first letter that Christ will NOT return until after the apostasy. Those living at that time will go through the tribulation of Satan....the son of perdition.
I agree with you in that people are falling away from sound doctrine but there will be signs of when Christ will arrive. We don't know the day or hour but we should know the season.
...........Whirlwind