byHisGrace

Hi Our church doesn't use any of the above-we have a doctrinal statement called "The 17 Fundamental Truths", it isn't something we refer to every service or even talk about much at all for that matter but is what we agree on as a denomination.

I'm not sure I understand your question. What is the difference between celibacy and abstinence?

Music is just neither good nor bad, it's just what you make it. I prefer to use it to praise the Lord with. Just because satan has taken over some of it doesn't mean we can't use it to worship our God. Even many of those old hymns were once songs that belonged to the devil-Amazing Grace for example. Satan has even used the scripture to pervert the gospel-I have heard people use it to promote communism-according to your reasoning-that would mean we can no longer use it to bring people to Christ. Take a look in your own heart-if it brings you closer to the Lord then turn it up.

Timothy, Why in the world would you even consider that the Samaritians baptism came before the birth of the church at Pentecost?

Instead of taking our word for it, why don't we look at scripture and see the context where Jesus used these words: The pharisees were saying the works of God were acually the works of satan. You will find this in the book of Matthew chapter 12 verses 22-32

Timothy, what I was getting at when I talked about the believers at Ephesus and the Samaritian believers was that BOTH were baptised in the Holy Spirit AFTER they became believers. You were saying earlier that the Ephusus believers were disciples of John the Baptist, that being why they received the Holy Spirit baptism at a later time, I was just pointing out that even if I would agree with that being the case, the same Holy Spirit baptism came upon the Samaritian believers-not when they became Christians but at a later date. I was saved about 1 year before I received the Holy Spirit baptism. At that time I received tongues to pray and praise the Lord in. I can do this anytime, anywhere. Once in a while I am used in the gift of tongues in church. I cannot do this anytime I want nor can I work it up. It is totally different in purpose and use. Does that make it clear as mud?

Shilou, that was an awesome testimony. I also received the Holy Spirit baptism by asking for it-I prayed for it for a long, long time. Some people seem to let the Lord Jesus baptise them a lot easier than others. It may have something to do with all the faulty teaching out there. Even though you have not been used in the gift of tongues I think you could pray in tongues if you needed to. Like Paul said, "I want you ALL to speak in tongues, yet in the church I would rather speak 5 words of understanding than 10000 words in unknown tongues. The reasons we are to pray in tongues include: When we do not know what to pray as we ought, to edify ourselves, and to offer up perfect prayer and praise without our intellect getting in the way. The gift of tongues accompianed by interpretation is for the edification of the church. It sounds like a lot of what your describing is the gift of the word of knowledge. We do not posess these gifts to use anytime we want but are only given them as the Spirit wills.

Hello all, I had outpatient surgery today so I won't get into this too much tonight. I would like to answer a few questions that Timothy and others asked. I will be brief because I am a little indesposed but if this goes on through tomorrow, we can talk more in debth. I do NOT believe that one must be baptised in the Holy Spirit in order to be saved-I trust only the blood of Christ, and when I accepted the salvation that Christ offers I began my walk with Him. The Holy Spirit is our teacher that leads us to Christ and walks along side us in this earthly walk. I believe the baptism in the Holy Spirit is a second work of grace that is available for all Christians who desire it. Most people who receive this baptism are able to pray and praise in tongues. --Just like in the scripture days. This is not the "gift of tongues" that is talked about in Corinthians. That is a public manifestation of tongues that must be interpreted so the whole church can be edified. Only some people have been used in the gift of tongues-like Paul said, "I thank God I speak in tongues more than you all--YET IN THE CHURCH I would rather speak 5 words with understanding than 10,000 words in unknown tongues-please excuse if that isn't a 100 percent correct quote-I don't have my bible open. The Holy Spirit baptism is for all Christians-and along with that comes a deeper desire to witness and a deep deep love for Jesus. I do not know anyone who has been used in any of the 9 spiritual gifts listed in Corinthians who has not first received the baptism in the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues as evidence. Not saying it doesn't happen, but I don't know anyone. If there is anyone out there who has been used in say "the gift of tongues" publicly without first having a private prayer tongue-tell us about it. God has used me to give public messages in tongues but it is not the same as private devotional tongues. These gifts shall cease when that which is perfect is come. When Jesus comes and we see Him face to face we will know as we are known and will not need tongues or any other spiritual gift.

Timothy (and anyone else who cares to join this discussion) I for one, like to discuss

I would like to make 2 points in reference to your post.

A good book to read on this subject would be THE BIBLE-let your doctrine come from there. Many try to reinterpret scripture to make it agree with their preconcived doctrine. Let's go to Acts chapter 19 for a start. There you will find some believers at Ephesus-they were asked by Paul if they recieved the Holy Spirit SINCE they believed. Obviously this wasn't something that happened automatically or he wouldn't have had to ask that question. We can go over this and over it. We will not change your mind and you most assuredly won't change ours. I will stand on the Word and it is plain to me that the Word considers the baptism in the Holy Spirit after salvation, with speaking in tongues as the most common evidence., to be a normal part of Christian life.

No matter how many people agree with your interpretation of scripture-truth is still truth. The baptism in the Holy Spirit didn't start with the Pentecostals, but was there all along for all who would see that Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. The gifts of the spirit will cease when that which is perfect is come. He hasn't come yet. We're still waiting.

Agreed.

I was addressing the post to the board in general. Meaning, if you stand and speak something you know is false-then you are a false prophet. If you really believe the Lord is giving you the Words to speak and the Words you are speaking agree with scripture but you are mistaken about hearing Gods voice then you do not need to be stoned. Haven't you ever been mistaken about something?

Anyone who stands up and prophesies something they KNOW isn't of God is a false prophet but you are leaving no room for the grace of God-you'll find in the old testament that sons in rebellion to their parents were to be stoned.

This Present Darkness, Piercing the Darkness, The Oath-All by Frank Peretti.

P.S. What's a "Branhamite"?

It all comes down to scripture. Know the Word, know it inside and out, know it backward and forward. When they teach people how to recognise counterfit money-they teach them to become so familiar with the genuine-they can spot the counterfit every time. This is how we need to be as Christians living in a world with so many teachers saying so many different things. At the same time-we need to keep a teachable spirit so that we are able to learn from and draw water from the wells of living water that ministers bring us. Whom I can learn from may not be the same as whom you can learn from. For example, I do not like to listen to Charles Stanley but I really enjoy John Hagee, Joyce Meyer and Jack Hayford. If I think they say something I don't agree with, I dig into the Word-spit out the seeds, and sometimes even change my mind on something that I thought I had down pat. We live in a day that really fulfills the scripture of "heaping unto themselves teachers" but it gives us ample opportunity to learn and grow. We are blessed.

I just ordered a year of Consumer Report for the hubby-it was $26. for 12 months. We also get Readers Digest, Smithsonian, and Better Homes. I'll be the first to admit though, I do most of my reading on the net. Christian message boards and frugal living sites are the ones I like best.

I am Pentecostal and proud of it! I think what people mean by "replacement theology" is that all the scriptures in the New Testament that speak to the Jewish people and the nation of Isreal are really for Christians. THIS IS FALSE DOCTRINE!!! God is still dealing with the Jewish people-and in the end times-it will all come down to them! Most of the "replacement theology" teachers are liberal in their interpretation of scripture, such as United Methodist, Presbyterian ect...

He will not find it because the scripture DOES tell us prophets are for the church age in 1 Corintians 12:28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. There are many more scriptures to support the view that prophets are for now. What about the five fold gifts to the church in Ephesians 4:11 And He himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists and some pastors and teachers. The idea that these things have ceased comes from a false doctrine that thinks because I don't or no one in my church does then it must be wrong, then they go around trying to twist scripture to come up with the same conclusion. Some of these things have been abused yes, and that is wrong, but to say they no longer exist can be just as wrong-in fact even more so because then you are denying the Word

Some of the things mentioned above are idols and should not have any part in a Christians life. Lot's of them though, are just inantimate objects that have no bearing one way or the other unless we give them that. I see nothing wrong with crosses or religious sayings or pictures-in fact, my home has scripture in every room. I think your looking for the devil under every bush. It is just like the symbols we use in communion, they are just that, symbols and a reminder to us and others of the hope that is within us. When I see the cross I am reminded of His love and His sacrafice for me. That's all, no more no less.

I never got the "feel good, I'm a good person" message out of a Joyce Meyer sermon. You must have heard something I didn't. She is one of the few who really tell it like it is and bring the basics of life in Christ down to the real world. I think she's awesome. Copeland is too much of a "gab it and grab it" kind of Christian for me. Joyce isn't like that at all, in fact, I heard her say she thinks the "faith movement" went beyond the Word of God. Listen to her for yourself-don't go by what some "everyone's wrong but me" minister or web site says she believes.

TBN or not I like the following, not necessarily in this order 1. Jack Hayford-actually he IS # 1 in my book 2. Joyce Meyer 3. Rod Parsley 4. The preacher on Hillsong (can't remember his name-since I only saw him for the first time last night) on TBN, and he was great. 5. Chuck Smith 6. David Jeremiah 7. Paula White 8. Juanita Byam 9. James Dobson 10. John Hagee

Hi, by "no respect for authority" I was speaking of the way children are lacking respect for parents, teachers, ect. It is nothing for children to smart mouth, and even worse these days. People used to respect the Word of God as an authority on any subject, even if they weren't Christian, but now to most it is just another book. The Bible tells us to respect those who are in authority over us. I'm not talking about false authority.