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If a king of a kingdom which belongs eternally to the king, calls a man dwelling in a foreign land out of that land to come and dwell in his kingdom; and if that king makes an unsolicited promise to that man to give the man and his descendants the king's kingdom as their everlasting inheritance; and if the king binds himself by covenant to perform his promise; and if the only condition the king places on the man and his descendants is that they take the king at his word concerning his promises (Gal.3: 17), then it would be not only absurd, but also a little under-handed for the king to hide (in the wording of his promises) a meaning that would (a) take thousands of years to unravel; and (b) completely do away with the plain and literal meaning of the promises. "And when they entered the nations where they went, they even profaned My holy name by saying to them, These are the people of the Jehovah, and they are gone out of His land . But I had pity for My holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations where they went. Therefore say to the house of Israel, So says the Lord Jehovah: I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name's sake, which you have profaned among the nations where you went. And I will sanctify My great name, which was profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. And the nations shall know that I am Jehovah, says the Lord Jehovah, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the nations and gather you out of all lands, and will gather you into your own land." (Eze.36: 20-24)

Hi, nebula. Yes, (I'm not an expert on Biblical Hebrew and I don't speak any Hebrew), but it seems so: "In the beginning (H7225) God (H430) created (H1254) (H853) the heaven (H8064) and the earth. (H776) " (Gen 1:1) "And he built (H1129) altars (H4196) for all (H3605) the host (H6635) of heaven (H8064) in the two (H8147) courts (H2691) of the house (H1004) of the LORD. (H3068)" (2Ki 21:5) H8064 שׁמה שׁמים shâmayim shâmeh shaw-mah'-yim, shaw-meh' The second form being dual of an unused singular; from an unused root meaning to be lofty; the sky (as aloft; the dual perhaps alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve): - air, X astrologer, heaven (-s). "And the earth (H776) was (H1961) without form, (H8414) and void; (H922) and darkness (H2822) was upon (H5921) the face (H6440) of the deep. (H8415) And the Spirit (H7307) of God (H430) moved (H7363) upon (H5921) the face (H6440) of the waters . (H4325 " (Gen 1:2) H4325 מים mayim mah'-yim Dual of a primitive noun (but used in a singular sense); water; figuratively juice; by euphemism urine, semen: - + piss, wasting, water (-ing, [-course, -flood, -spring]). Biblical Hebrew is beautiful, I think - and praise God for the translation work of people like Strong! being molded

My understanding is this: The symbolism in the Revelation will be 100% consistent with Biblical (Old Testament) symbolism: Zechariah chapter 4 is prophetic of Jesus and His Church: "Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of Jehovah unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, saith Jehovah of hosts . Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain; and he shall bring forth the top stone with shoutings of Grace, grace, unto it. Moreover the word of Jehovah came unto me, saying, The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that Jehovah of hosts hath sent me unto you ." (Zec 4:6-9) It's prophetic of Jesus building His church after He Himself laid its foundation. What has this got to do with "the two witnesses" of Jesus? Check the symbolism: "And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have seen, and, behold, a candlestick all of gold , with its bowl upon the top of it, and its seven lamps thereon; there are seven pipes to each of the lamps, which are upon the top thereof; and two olive-trees by it , one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof... "And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these are? And I said, No, my lord. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth ." "[b ]These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks, standing before the Lord of the earth ." (Zech.4: 2-3, 13-14; Rev 11:4) Zerubbabel (the governor) and Joshua (the High priest) are both biblical types of Jesus, and Zerubbabel was busy building the house (temple) of God and was being assisted by Joshua. "The two witnesses" are the witnesses of Jesus and they speak with ONE MOUTH (Rev.11: 5), unlike the beast, false prophet and dragon. "...the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy". (Rev.19: 10c) "And I will give unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth." (Rev 11:3) "The Spirit of fire" proceeding from their mouth could be a reference to the Spirit of Truth against which the arguments of atheists, agnostics, evolutionists etc cannot stand. The blessing of the Holy Spirit from heaven is symbolized as "waters from heaven" (rain: Hebrew "mayim mi shamayim") in the Old Testament. "And the third poured out his bowl into the rivers and the fountains of the waters; and it became blood. And I heard the angel of the waters saying, Righteous art thou, who art and who wast, thou Holy One, because thou didst thus judge: for they poured out the blood of the saints and the prophets, and blood hast thou given them to drink: they are worthy . (Rev 16:4-6) "These have the power to shut the heaven, that it rain not during the days of their prophecy: and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to smite the earth with every plague, as often as they shall desire." (Rev 11:6). False doctrine/heresy is a (spiritual) plague. "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and there was given to him authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation." (Rev 13:7) "I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;" (Dan 7:21) "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that cometh up out of the abyss shall make war with them, and overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. And from among the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations do men look upon their dead bodies three days and a half, and suffer not their dead bodies to be laid in a tomb. And they that dwell on the earth rejoice over them, and make merry; and they shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwell on the earth. And after the three days and a half the breath of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them that beheld them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they went up into heaven in the cloud; and their enemies beheld them . (Rev 11:7-12) Well, that's just my post-tribulation rapture of the saints way of understanding who "the two witnesses" of Jesus refers to - and I could be wrong. being moulded

Yeah... I think it's also been 6000 years since the fall of Adam (Gen.5: 3; 3: 22-24). being moulded

EVERYTHING applies to Christ! "For of Him, to Him, and Through Him are all things to whom be the Glory." Amen! You know, daystar101, when I first posted this post about the seven, seven, seven here, I wasn't even aware yet about the events of yesterday's stock market excitement. I became aware through reading another thread at another Forum I visit - it put my head into quite a spin, I must tell you! being moulded

It's also interesting that today Sept, 30, 2008 marks the beginning of the final seven years of the current 7 X 7 sabbath-year cycle - the Jubilee year starts on Sept. 23, 2015. I may get shot down for saying the following, but here goes: If anyone is familiar with the following website, you will be aware of what is to follow: http://www.elshaddaiministries.us/ UNCANNY COINCIDENCE OR NO COINCIDENCE AT ALL? What follows is no joke, and no crazy speculation based on human imagination

Yeah... someone posted this up on a thread in another Forum today - I thought it was interesting: "My beliefs about this currently world economy crisis. I believe when the world economy collapsed completely, then 666 world system will be set up to fix world economy crisis for the purpose of "buy" or "sell"(Rev. 13:16-17), by make new law(Dan. 7:25) to force everyone be required to have the mark as "I.D." before they can buy or sell things. I believe this currently world economy crisis are heading toward collapse right now, as the 666 world system is coming next. It would not be longer. Everything all will be change immediately. We better be prepare for it, and be strong faith in Christ, deny the 666 world system, look up at Jesus, willing die for Jesus." In Christ Rev. 22:20 - Amen! God's judgment falls on the world's economic system (777) and the beast eventually intervenes in order to "save it" by bringing in "the 666 economic system"? being moulded

Maybe it does apply to this - who knows? This took place on the eve of Rosh Hashanah which is also Yom Teruah/Day of Trumpets. Traditionally, "the (Gentile) nations" are judged by God on the Day of Trumpets, and the decree is sealed on the Day of Atonement. The trumpets that are blown on Rosh Hashanah are (a) Warning calls; and (b) a call for Israel to repent; and ( c ) herald the coming king; and (e) announce the King if Israel's coronation over the nations. It's also "New Year for Gentile kings" - I.O.W, "the kingdoms of this world". I may be wrong, but I believe that that Day of Trumpets is linked with Rev.11: 15: "And the seventh angel sounded (his trumpet); and there followed great voices in heaven, and they said, The kingdom of the world is become the kingdom of our Lord, and of his Christ: and he shall reign for ever and ever." (Rev 11:15). So, even though I haven't "made up my mind" about this, I ask myself "Am I just being superstitious if I see the fact that the U.S stock market fell 777 points as a warning sign from God on Rosh Hashanah? I don't want to scare anybody, but I live in South Africa - a big gold-mining country, and the day that that large American company filed for bankruptcy (I don't remember the name of the company now), the gold price shot up to 777 U S dollars per ounce. I thought, "Are we witnessing the end of the U.S Dollar as a world-based currency"? It would be interesting to know what the time of day was that the U.S stock market fell - Rosh Hashanah began at sunset in Jerusalem yesterday. What was the time in New York? Was this all taking place while trumpets were being blown in synagogues in Israel? being moulded

Me too! being moulded

Oh, by the way. HAPPY NEW YEAR, ROSH HASHANAH to everyone who believes that it is!! being moulded

1 Seven and completeness: The Hebrew word SHABA (Strong

I haven't read all 17 pages of the replies to this, so I hope this hasn't been said before: "the beast from the sea" refers to kingdoms/empires rising out of the (Gentile) nations ("the sea") (Dan.7: 2-3, Rev.13: 1 and 17: 3). Nebuchadnezzar was the ruler of the beast of Babylon, and he built an image of himself and commanded that "all people, nations and languages" bow down and worship the image of the beast (Dan.2: 32, 38; 3: 1-6). Whoever would not bow down and worship "the image of the beast" was thrown into the burning, fiery furnace (compare Rev.13: 15). The New Testament contrasts "the image of God" (Christ) with "the image of the beast" in a number of ways, for example: On one hand, Christ is the image of God, and His government in the world is the government of God in the world. On the other hand, the ruler of the kingdom or empire is "the image of the beast", and his government in the world is the government of Satan in the world (Rev.13: 2). One one hand, Christ died on behalf of many; on the other hand, the antichrist will be responsible for the death of many (Rev.11: 7; 13: 7, 15). On one hand, the worship of Christ, the image of God, results in forgiveness for sins and eternal life; on the other hand, the worship of antichrist, the image of the beast results in judgement for sins and eternal condemnation (Rev.14: 7, 9-12). So Christ , and Christ only, is God's government in the world - there's the only true Theocracy. The history of all other so-called "Christian" Theocracies are sordid ones. Antichrist means "instead of Christ" - an impostor who places himself up instead of Christ and establishes a "Christian" Theocracy in Christ's stead. "And I saw one of its heads as having been slain to death, and its deadly wound was healed. And all the earth marveled after the beast. And they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast. And they worshiped the beast, saying, Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with it?" (Rev.13: 3-4). "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to ascend out of the abyss and go into perdition. And those dwelling on the earth will marvel, those whose names were not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is." (Rev.17: 8). The Strong's Greek Dictionary shows that the Greek New Testament uses two words for "temple": hieron, and naos. The word hieron is used throughout the N.T with reference to the temple building in Jerusalem and its outer courts. The word naos is used with reference to (a) the holy place and most holy place of the temple in Jerusalem; and (b) the body of Christ; and © our bodies as the temple of God; and (d) the assembly of the saints or "church" as the temple of God. The last time that the Greek New Testament uses the word naos with reference to the temple in Jerusalem, is at the time of the crucifixion of Christ (Mat.27: 5, 51). From then on, the word hieron is used with reference to the temple in Jerusalem, and the word naos is used only in reference to our bodies as the temple of God and the church as the temple of God - the only exception being Act.6: 13 and 21: 28, where the Greek words hagios (sacred) and topos (location) translate the words of Paul's Jewish accusers when they referred to the Jerusalem temple as the "holy place"). But the word naos is used only in reference to our bodies and the "church" as the temple of God from the time of the crucifixion of Christ onwards: "Do you not know that you are a temple (Greek: naos) of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?" (1Co 3:16) "And what agreement does a temple (Greek: naos) of God have with idols? For you are the temple of the living God, as God has said, "I will dwell in them and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." (2Co 6:16). And here comes the big one: "... who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple (Greek: naos) of God, setting himself forth, that he is God." (2Th. 2:4) So we should be very careful not to accept any "Christian" government aside from the future millennial government Adon Yeshua haMaschiach Himself as a "Christian" Theocracy. being moulded