ServingHim Posted July 21, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,156 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 60 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/19/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 21, 2004 People not just like me don't offend me. I'm so glad to hear that... What offends me is putting a HUMAN BEING up on some pedestal. when you mean pedestal, do you mean that they have 'high regard' for that person they 'put on a pedestal'? For if that is so, then I don't in the least have a problem with that. I have ' high regard' for many many people. Like my grandmother who was a model of what it means to be 'Christlike'. She taught me so much...I didn't WORSHIP my grandmother, but I did love her very much and respect her, admire her, and hold her in 'high regard' with the utmost respect. The blessed Mother of our Lord herself, in Scripture, said ... For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed; Luke 1:48 ... that is exactly how I feel about Mary (and I know others who love her and respect her) and I do hold her in 'high regard'...after all, she is the Mother of the Savior of the World. She was 2000+ years ago, and will never cease to be the Mother of the Savior of the World, for ALL eternity. And ALL generations 'should' call her blessed, but sadly, many don't. Having graven images of said HUMAN put up in the church to be bowed down to and prayed to. I'm not sure what 'graven image' your speaking of, and much less being bowed down to as if they were human. Can I ask you if you have a deceased loved one with a plot at the cemetary? If not, then obviously this might not mean anything to you. BUT, many people do have deceased loved ones. Many times I see people bringing flowers to the gravesites (with images on the headstones, crosses, pictures of the deceased, etc.). These people might kneel and pray before the gravesite. IS this too 'forbidden'? I hope your answer is no. They are probably praying before the 'image' of the gravesite because it helps their minds feel closer to the deceased loved one; perhaps it even helps them to feel closer to God knowing that their deceased loved one is IN God's presence. I don't consider a picture or even an artwork of Mary to be 'graven'. If you do, then you must also consider ALL images to be evil, every single one...do you have a cross in your home? Why? I do...and I sometimes look at it...it always reminds me of what our Lord did for ME (and of course all of the human race). Am I blaspheming by looking and perhaps even evoking prayer in front of this 'image'...the cross? I'd say emphatically NO! Giving glory or praise to anyone other than Jesus Christ. do you have children? what about a husband? Do you EVER praise your children? I do...am I taking glory away from Christ by doing this? I pray not! I would ONLY think that it would be glorifying Him; after all, my children are HIS creation! And when HIS creations are praised, it gives ALL glory to Him, Creator, Maker of ALL things. Scripture even says this: . . . punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do right. 1 Peter 2:14 Jesus said "who are my mother and brothers and sister?" "Anyone who does the will of my Father are my mother and brothers and sisters" yes, you're right! He did. So are YOU Jesus' mother? I DO know that Mary did Jesus' will pretty darn well! Jesus respected his mom according to the law, but he sure didn't put her above anyone else and neither should we. It is utter blasphemy. do you love ALL people the exact same? Do you love anyone ABOVE anyone else? I know I do ... I love my husband ABOVE his parents. Is this blaspheming God? You say that Jesus 'respected' his mom. Do you think He LOVED her? I do. Aren't we to immitate Jesus? Jesus perfectly fulfilled the commandment "Honor your father and your mother" Ex 20:12. To me Catholicism is a "religion", not a relationship(for the most part, I don't want to generalize). you are certainly welcome to your opinion, but your 'opinion' of what Catholic 'religion' is does not mean that your opinion is the Truth about the faith, religion, and relationship. Peace be with you, :hug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 i'm sure i'm going to wish i hadn't ask this... but i'm going to anyway. one simple question, i have no desire to debate it, i am just curious. does mary intercede on your behalf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ServingHim Posted July 22, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,156 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 60 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/19/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2004 i'm sure i'm going to wish i hadn't ask this... but i'm going to anyway. one simple question, i have no desire to debate it, i am just curious. peace, ladyC. I'm glad you asked that question. Perhaps our dialogue can go in the right direction this time. I pray so, and will do my best to respectfully answer when I can. does mary intercede on your behalf?if you're here for a little while this evening, I'd like to ask this of you? If you ask someone to pray for you, are they interceding on your behalf? Respectfully asked, SH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehut Posted July 22, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,216 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/16/1962 Share Posted July 22, 2004 1- she gave birth, raised him into a young boy who grew into a young man. She was with him thoughout his entire 33 years of his life. 2- She was with Him at His first miracle, and even prompted Him to do so at the wedding at Cana (John 2:3-6). 1- In other words, she did the same things that every other mother does for her child? 2- Much in the same way as he raised Lazarus on request? Ahd healed the Centurion's servant upon request? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ServingHim Posted July 22, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,156 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 60 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/19/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2004 1- In other words, she did the same things that every other mother does for her child? well I know some mother's who abuse their children, and worse...but yes, she most definitely did her mothering probably perfectly. steve, is there a point to your question? I must be missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LCPGUY Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 i'm sure i'm going to wish i hadn't ask this... but i'm going to anyway. one simple question, i have no desire to debate it, i am just curious. does mary intercede on your behalf? LADY, Can anyone point out from the scriptures where anyone other that God, i.e., Jesus and the Holy Spirit intercedes for us. I sure haven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ServingHim Posted July 22, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,156 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 60 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/19/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2004 (edited) LCPGuy, with all due respect, I didn't realize that Mary was 'dead'. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Cor 15:22 Sacred Scripture does, however, contain invocations of the holy angels of God in the Book of Psalms (Ps 103:20-21; 148:1-2). So, since God intends for us to pray these Psalms, there must be nothing wrong with believers on earth addressing the holy angels in Heaven, right? Heaven is not like earth. Here our knowledge and attention span is severely limited, largely because our souls are limited by their connection to our lowly, physical bodies. However, the saints are disembodied spirits and Mary has a glorified, spiritual body which does not limit her soul as a physical body would. She is VERY much alive in Christ in heaven. If we can invoke the 'angels' as shown in the Psalms, why would we be unable to invoke Mary? In 1 Timothy 2:1-4, St. Paul writes that Christians should pray for the salvation of all men - in other words, he is telling them to act as intercessors. Of course, their intercession is not independent of Christ the Mediator, for they have access to the Father only by His death. Neither is Mary's intercession independent of Christ the Mediator. God has forbidden "necromancy", which is the attempt to conjure up a spirit by occult practices so that one can ask it questions and 'gain secret knowledge or information' from it. Simply asking a saint (such as Mary), "Please pray for me", is vastly different from conducting a seance, and no secret knowledge is sought at all. Merely interecession, since it would be ignorant to think that Mary is NOT in the presence of Her Son, our Lord. Hope this helps. Edited July 22, 2004 by ServingHim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ServingHim Posted July 22, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,156 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 60 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/19/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2004 one last thing on Mary being 'dead' ... those who sleep in Christ are still members of His Body, and since His Body is not divided by death, we still have communion with them. The Bible indicates that members of the Church have fellowship not only with God the Father and Jesus Christ, but with "an innumerable company of angels" and "the spirits of just men made perfect" (Hebrews 12:22-24). All Glory to God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LCPGUY Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 If we can invoke the 'angels' as shown in the Psalms, why would we be unable to invoke Mary? Invoking an Angel is one thing, praying to them is entirely different and not mentioned anywhere in scripture. An angel may indeed be invoked, but it is due to praying to God directly, and it is God alone who commands the angel. And I beg to differ with you, Mary is as dead as a doornail. Period. She has no glorified resurrected body any more than you or I do, yet. But I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ServingHim Posted July 22, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,156 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 60 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/19/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2004 If we can invoke the 'angels' as shown in the Psalms, why would we be unable to invoke Mary? Invoking an Angel is one thing, praying to them is entirely different and not mentioned anywhere in scripture. An angel may indeed be invoked, but it is due to praying to God directly, and it is God alone who commands the angel. And I beg to differ with you, Mary is as dead as a doornail. Period. She has no glorified resurrected body any more than you or I do, yet. But I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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