Guest astralis Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 Racer, If you knew the difference between Apocrypha and Deuterocanonicals why did you ask? I'm not saying that I believe that what you posted is deceptive and does not reflect what Iraneaus may or may not have believed. But, it's not very clear or decisive. It's vague and with what little citation you provided, I'll will be searching for a while to find the post in complete context. I'm sure you'll try to find a way to call an apple an orange. If you're looking for the text that took you an hour to find, I found it in three minutes. You can inspect it yourself. Again, Daniel 13 is not in the Protestant Bible yet it is referenced by Irenaeus. http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103426.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest racer Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 If you knew the difference between Apocrypha and Deuterocanonicals why did you ask? To see if you knew. I'm sure you'll try to find a way to call an apple an orange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest astralis Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 Racer, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest racer Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 astralis, Referenced is the operative word? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest astralis Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 Okay. I'll wait for your conclusion. I'm glad you're doing research instead of just dismissing the entire article. :biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest racer Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 Uh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazn Posted July 15, 2002 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 21 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/21/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 15, 2002 Chazn, Finally found the exerpts from Iraneaus that I wanted to post for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest astralis Posted July 15, 2002 Share Posted July 15, 2002 I never used those texts to prove Purgatory. What are you talking about? If the Apostles can teach from the Septuagint and tell people that all scripture is useful for teaching and have the Deuterocanonicals in the Bible they were using and didn't tell people to not use some of the books, then I think that's a fine example of which Bible to use. You can make your decision based on the Reformatists who cut books out of it, a Bible that the Apostles never used, and you'll be wrong. I'll continue to use the Bible the Apostles used and taught from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazn Posted July 15, 2002 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 21 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/21/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 15, 2002 I never used those texts to prove Purgatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazn Posted July 15, 2002 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 21 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/21/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 15, 2002 Astralis, Munari refered to the following verses not you. But I believe they were in context of arguing in favor of the doctrine of purgatory. Lana, nothing unclean will enter the presence of God in heaven (Rev. 21:27) "I tell you, you will never get out till you have paid the very last copper" (Luke 12:59) Quote Sometimes Protestants object that Jesus told the thief on the cross that, on the very day the two of them died, they would be together in paradise (Luke 23:43), which they read as a denial of purgatory. However, the argument backfires and actually supports purgatory by proving the existence of a state other than heaven and hell, since Jesus did not go to heaven on the day he died. Peter tells us that he "went and preached to the spirits in prison" (1 Pet. 3:19), and, after his resurrection, Christ himself declared: "I have not yet ascended to the Father" (John 20:17). Thus at that time paradise was located in some third state besides heaven and besides hell. from: http://www.catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp "will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come" (Matt. 12:32) "He will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire" (1 Cor 3:15) 18 For Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the sake of the unrighteous, that he might lead you to God. Put to death in the flesh, he was brought to life in the spirit. 19 In it he also went to preach to the spirits in prison, 20 who had once been disobedient while God patiently waited in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water. "In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the dead to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin" (2 Macc. 12:43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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