Lanakila

I live on the coast of VA and we are still recovering from the effects of this hurricane. A week without power was tough. I was having serious computer withdrawls. But, I am back. Many, many, many trees down. Our home had minimal damage, but the lines were down everywhere. They are working hard to get us back up and running. Last weekend was the toughest with no ice, and gas, and only Sams club open, but we made it.

I was saved in a Baptist church, baptised in one, and have been a member of one since (different ones mind you). All this is to say I was entrenched in the doctrine of eternal security. I didn't leave this doctrine easily and am not a full arminian. I don't believe that if you commit adultery as a Christian and continue to live in sin, that you lose your salvation. Why a Christian would do this is hard for us trying to live righteously to understand, but it happens all the time. But, I witness to atheists who used to be Christians most everyday online, and I am telling you that they lost it. Some may not have been real Christians in the first place, I don't doubt. But, many of them used to go to churches just like yours and mine. They started doubting, and fed those doubts with a bunch of skeptical stuff, either from websites or books they have read. A book that makes many lose their faith is an old one called: The Age Of Reason by Thomas Paine. Satan has used this book as well as some others in amazing ways, to get Christians to stop believing. Some of you will say well if it was real they will come back, they are just backsliding, but I beg to differ with you. They no longer believe and act like the Apostle Paul in trying to kill other Christians faith, (through reason instead, of threats). These people actively post on message boards for many reasons. Some aren't trying to kill Christians faith, but are just after the argument, for arguments sake. But, they used to be Christians, and now they aren't. Like the scripture in Hebrews, and other ones mentioned in this thread mention. I challenge them that they haven't examined all the information out there and that they should keep searching, but many are set in their new found faith of atheism. ( I know its not a faith according to them) But they are trusting their own reasoning power.

Hubby and I are are of the same view. That God saves us, when we believe and repent, no man can pluck us out of God's hands. But, and this is a big but, salvation is based upon faith, and if we no longer have faith, we are denying the very Lord who saved us, and apostacizing ourselves (Hebrew warning passages). I don't believe all sin separates us from God, but the sin of unbelief obviously does, or God wouldn't say so in the scriptures. In 1 Cor we are told to examine ourselves to see if we be in the faith. Look at that verse without the bias of eternal security (without condition) for just a moment. If we can are to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith, then we can be out. This is talking about the sin of unbelief, which leads to other sins. Frankly the sin of unbelief is what keeps unbelievers from heaven in the first place, and I personally after much study, believe its what takes a former Christian and makes an unbeliever out of them. Telling someone like this they were never saved in the first place is highly offensive to them by the way. This is not simple backsliding folks, this is apastacy. It's extreme, but happens alot. The scripture teaches in Hebrews that those that have done this cannot be renewed again to salvation.

I have seen this stuff that crusader mention in the OP quite a bit. Its blasphemy and should be removed. If you see stuff like that posted on any Christian site that has a report button, then please report it. As a moderator on a very busy forum I know that we can't read every single thread even in the 3 areas that I moderate. Moderators need the help of members to keep this type of tripe off Christian owned/ and operated boards. There will always be sinners and even Christians sin, that are trying to justify whatever their pet sin is. We need to tell them in love that they are wrong, and then move on. Some Christians feel like its their own personal duty to be hateful to these people. Especially on message boards. I am telling everyone here, that condemning them does no good at all. Yes they are wrong, and messed up, and wayward, and maybe even leading others astray, but we do no better if we just call them heretics and leave it at that. I have seen so many condemning Christians, who have the truth, but are missing the love, that I get a little frustrated. We are not supposed to be the Fred Phelps type Christians (I doubt he really is one).

I also come from a very legalistic background as a Christian. My faith group that I came from prides themselves on how very conservative they are. It took a long time to break away from that and embrace the liberty we have in Christ. We may have swung a little too far to the liberty side (I don't think so though) out of defiance to the junk theology we were escaping. Legalism binds a person, both in pride and fear. Pride in your own actions, as fear that you aren't quite living up to the standard (law unto yourself) that you and your group have self-inposed. God used a very excellent book in helping us to free ourselves from the bondage of legalism. It's title is: The Pharisees Guide To Total Holiness. Yes the title is sarcastic, but that is the point. Legalism creates a bunch of lost religious people IMOE. Also, the only thing legalism does for you is make you obsolete as far as evangelism purposes go. This form of bondage is so ridiculous that the world just laughs and says look how stupid the Christians are being. Meanwhile you get puffed up at the persecution for "the faith" you seem to be getting. When all along the persecution and laughter has nothing to do with Jesus or the faith at all, and is entirely based on the prideful legalism. I might add that legalism is spiritual immaturity. Setting up laws makes it easier to do what is right than trusting the Holy Spirits guidance. The legalism of the OT was trumped by the liberty the Jesus gives in the New. Not that this liberty is an excuse to sin (Paul would say God forbid), but that we are not under the law, but under grace.

I went to a Christian music festival recently like Shilou. I only attended one day and only went to see the Newsboys really. The first 3 groups were not my taste. I don't have a problem with people singing loudly and playing loudly for the Lord, but I just don't like it personally. I want to hear the words, and the Newsboys and Third Day are more my taste. DC Talk has a song off their Jesus Freak CD that is called: What if I Stumble?. This is a strong temptation for the Christian groups. They are like Charles Barkley tried to deny role models whether they like it or not. But, we do need to keep them in prayer instead of judging. I don't know if y'all have heard of Rebecca St James but, I don't know of a better role model for young Christian girls and women than her. She is committed to remaining pure, and accountable on that. I saw her in concert and she preached the gospel so clearly and literally hundreds went forward during the altar call to either recommit to purity or get saved.

I am not a Calvinist and therefore don't think faith is all up to God. We have to seek him with a small mustard seed of faith, and then the Holy Spirit will reveal the truth. Remember the man who's son was possessed by a demon who said to the Savior: "Lord I believe, help me overcome my unbelief!!". Just the mustard seed is all Jesus needs, and he takes that and mountains can be moved into the sea.

Some just have to prove Christianity wrong. Its like their main purpose in life it seems. Some actually are nice people who like to debate Christians. Some are trying to win converts to atheism (not a religion according to them). Those seem to get in trouble the most. Most are like Adstar mentioned former Christians who just have to justify why they have left the faith. Some like a fellow I know, are alienated from home and family because of their now atheist beliefs.

The owners of a few of these boards come over to Christian forums occasionally. They may not be convinced of Jesus deity, but they like the rules that make everyone act in civility towards each other.

I didn't know the trolls had sites, LOL. I just know what they look like and sound like, and can pick them out by username, most of the time. But, I will tell you something Christians can be trolls too, which is sad. Also anyone can act trollish. The atheist favorite tactic it to ask questions they already know the answer to, but act all innocent like its sincere, and then slam you. I needed a break from that for awhile and that is why I will be over here posting with you folks for a bit. I need an "atheist break", while on the internet. Besides I have posed a challenge to them, that is going to take them awhile to respond to, LOL.

Glad y'all didn't feed the troll.

Ted is a Dr (yes MD) in the Air Force. He has been sent there in support of the War on Terror.

Cats hubby comes home Saturday Jul 26th, finally. We are so excited. :il:

You have defined a troll so well Cats. Except that even Christians can fit this bill I am afraid. They come in not to talk but to post there junk and leave. If anyone does try to discuss their posts they ignore them, or reply quite rudely. If you check out our board the definition of trolling is well defined though. Disclaimer: I am not trying to steal people from this board. :x:

Yes I mod at Christianforums.com in the General Apologetics and News forum.