Canon

[Guest racer]

munari,

Well, thank you so much.  However, just simply counting verses that you claim are evidence does not prove these are actual references.  However, I do have a RCC Study Bible, so I'll read over these tonight and get back to you!

[Guest racer]

Oooops    I stuttered!  

[munari]

I will admit it, I did not read all these references and check them, but they were attached with an article by James Akin, and I trust him because of other things I have read by him. Here is the article that starts that list:

I get a lot of requests for a list of the references the New Testament makes to the deuterocanonical books of the Old Testament. Unfortunately, giving a list is not such a simple affair since it is not always obvious whether something is a genuine reference.

Hebrews 11:35 is an indisputable reference to 2 Maccabees 7, but many are not so clear as there may be only a single phrase that echoes one in a deuterocanonical book (and this may not be obvious in the translation, but only the original languages).

This is the same with New Testament references to the protocanonical books of the Old Testament. How many New Testament references there are to the Old Testament depends in large measure on what you are going to count as a reference.

As a result, many scholarly works simply give an enormous catalogue of all proposed references and leave it to the individual interpreter to decide whether a given reference is actual or not.

I will follow the same procedure until I have time to sit down with the following references, sort through them, and decide which I can prove to be references are to deutercanonical books. If you find any you think are indisputable, email me, as it will help with the project of producing a shorter list of indisputable references.

The following (huge) list is taken from pp. 800-804 of the Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament, 27th edition (Novum Testamentum: Graece et Latine, published by Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft).

from: http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/deutero3.htm

Here is the evidence, I leave the burden of determination of the weight of that evidence to you. However, if you do have a problem with some of the verses, I would appreciate if you would share those verses and those issues with us.

[Guest racer]

munari,

I didn't actually get time to go over the cross-references last night,

[munari]

But, you must also be careful because if you found the same verse in another OT book, which was the first book to be written? Perhaps they too were citings Maccabbees (or some other book)...

[Guest astralis]

Racer,

 Did you get a chance to cross-reference yet?

I found a quote from Martin Luther where he wrote, "We concede - as we must - that so much of what they [the Catholic Church] say is true:  that the papacy has God's word and the office of the apostles, and that we have received Holy Scriptures, Baptism, the Sacrament, and the pulpit from them.  What would we know of these if it were not for them?  (Sermons on the Gospel of John, chaps. 14-16 (1537), in vol. 24 of Luther's Works [st. Louis,Mo.: Concordia, 1961]. 304).

[Guest racer]

astralis,

I'm still going over it.  I haven't actually gotten very far and am planning to spend time on it this weekend.

As for Martin Luther, I'm not much of a fan.  

[Guest racer]

munari & astralis,

Thought I'd go ahead and post what I've found so far.  It's not much but here it goes.

Of the Deuteros you listed that were referenced or quoted in the NT, I used my RC Study Bible to look up dates the texts were written.

Wisdom   -   100 B.C.

Maccabees- 100 B.C.

Baruch      - The Study Bible did not list a date for the writing of this text, but it did say, " . . . restating previous inspired teachings at a later date . . . . (The Word Among Us Catholic Study Bible, New American Bible, Catholic Bible Press a division of Thomas Nelson Publishers)

Sirach       - 200-175 B.C.

Tobit        - 200 B.C.

Then I looked in my Full Gospel study Bible, for cross references to the NT Books munari gave for the dates of their writings.  This is what I found so far:

Job  -  The date is uncertain, but was written sometime between 2000 B.C. and 538 B.C.

Ecclesiastes  - c. 935 B.C.

1 Kings   -  550-560 B.C.

Leviticus -  1445-1405 B.C.

Deuteronomy - 1405 B.C.

Isaiah  -  700-680 B.C.

Psalms  - 10th thru 5th century B.C.

Proverbs -  970-700 B.C.

So that's what I've found in regards to the dates of authorship.

Now, to the cross references:

Matthew 4:4/Wisdom 16:26:  The oldest source for this verse is found in Deuteronomy, 8:3.

Matthew 4:15/1 Maccabees 5:15:  Isaiah 9:1,2  

Matthew 5:18/Baruch 4:1:The oldest sources are Psalms 102:26,27; Isaiah 40:8; 51:6

Matthew 5:28/Sirach 9:8:  Job 31:1; Pro 6:25

Matthew 5:2ss/Sirach 25:7-12:  (Not sure what the 5:2ss means?

Matthew 5:4/Sirach 48:24:  Isaiah 61:2,3

Matthew 6:7/Sirach 7:14:  Ecclesiatstes 5:2; 1 Kings 18:26

Matthew 6:9/Sirach 23:1,4:  I'm not seeing the connection between these two verses.  :???:

Matthew 6:10/1 Maccabees 3:60:  Psalms 103:20 & 148:1, and in my RC Study Bible, 1 Maccabees 3 ends with verse 59. :???:

Matthew 6:12/Sirach 28:2:  Leviticus 19:17; Pro 17:10

Matthew 6:13/Sirach 33:1:  I really don't see how these verses relate either.  Maybe you can clear it up a little.

Matthew 6:20/Sirach 29:10:  Isaiah 58:7

Matthew 6:23/Sirach 14:10:  Don't make a connection here either.

Matthew 6:33/Wisdom 7:11:  Isaiah 58:5-11

Matthew 7:12/Tobit 4:15:  Leviticus 19:18

More to come! (This is going to take a while )