Creation: Essential for a Healthy Christian Worldview

[Guest shiloh357]

Creation: Essential for a Healthy and Proper Christian Worldview

By Shiloh357

The purpose of this study is to discuss why the biblical creation model is essential to Christianity and why Christians should accept the creation model over and against the Godless and idolatrous evolutionary model. We will be examining the many theological truths that we find present in the creation model. We will be examining what the creation model tells us about God, what it tells us our purpose here on earth, what it tells us about redemption and we will even briefly examine what the creation model tells us about ourselves as God

[Guest]

The LORD

Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else. Deuteronomy 4:39

My God

See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever. Deuteronomy 32:39:40

Is The LORD

By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. Psalms 33:6

My God

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. I sat not in the assembly of the mockers, nor rejoiced; I sat alone because of thy hand: for thou hast filled me with indignation. Jeremiah 15:16-17

Forever

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:7

And Evermore

For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. Job 19:25-27

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If You

And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the third day. Genesis 1:11-13

Refuse

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 5:39

The Clear Word Of God

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Colossians 1:16-17

Then Just Who Is The Jesus

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:10-12

You Stake Your Eternal

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2 Timothy 4:3-4

Salvation

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:11

Upon

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said...Yea, hath God said.... ? Genesis 3:1

Hum

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Matthew 24:24

[OldEnglishSheepdog]

Very well articulated!

Thanks for that write up Shiloh. It was a very good read.

[LLC]

Shiloh357, Great post! I enjoyed reading your point of view. Personally, I feel that Creationism and Intelligent Design are both Blasphemous to some extent.

Both work with the assumption that God would only have created in a certain way, and would not work through processes such as those that biologists, geneticists, and paleontologists study. And since the evidence is more than adequate to demonstrate that the history of life on this planet followed a course that is described in more-or-less accurate terms by mainstream science, with processes at work that are at least partially described and accounted for by mainstream evolutionary theory, there is only one conclusion that a religious believer who is well-informed about science can draw:

Both young-earth creationism and intelligent design insult the Creator and demean creation.

Although it is done somewhat less openly by proponents of intelligent design, both try to justify their insults addressed at God the Creator, ironically, by appeal to particular interpretations of a book they believe that He wrote.

But which is easier to interpret - texts written in human languages, or scientific data? While scientists know better than to say the equivalent of "we don't interpret the data - we just read it," there is a sense in which this statement would make somewhat more sense, and be slightly more true, in the case of the natural sciences than in the case of reading texts.

Furthermore, anyone can write a book claiming to be by or about God or to reveal the truth. It is much harder to make a planet, or life, let alone a universe. And so, if one believes that there is a Creator and wants to get an appropriate sense of the majesty, power, wisdom and activity of that Creator, should one look to texts written by people (whether divinely inspired or not) or to the creation itself? In essence, creation is a better witness to the creator

[OldEnglishSheepdog]

LLC, please accept the following as the sharp rebuke for which it is intended:

Shiloh357, Great post! I enjoyed reading your point of view. Personally, I feel that Creationism and Intelligent Design are both Blasphemous to some extent.

Blasphemous to believe God when He tells you how He did something?

Please.

Both work with the assumption that God would only have created in a certain way,

No, the assumption that He did as He said.

and would not work through processes such as those that biologists, geneticists, and paleontologists study.

You're comparing those processes to God's word and saying that defiance of the beliefs held by those who operate in such fields is blasphemy.

That, itself, is blasphemy, because you're elevating man's wisdom over God's word and calling belief in God's word over man's blasphemous.

"This is what the LORD says: "Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who depends on flesh for his strength and whose heart turns away from the LORD" (Jeremiah 17:5)

"Stop trusting in man, who has but a breath in his nostrils. Of what account is he?" (Isaiah 2:22)

"For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom" (1 Cor. 1:25)

Both young-earth creationism and intelligent design insult the Creator and demean creation.

Book, chapter, and verse to support that assertion please.

Or is that simply the way it seems to you?

"There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death" (Prov. 16:25).

When you proclaim blasphemy and make judgments about God are these your thoughts, or God's thoughts you're presenting, because "my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD" (Isaiah 55:8).

Will you commit a vastly greater offense than Job and judge the Creator according to the council of men? "Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man; for "I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding... Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all" (Job 38:1-18).

Do you know the judgments of God apart from His revelation, according to... biology? "Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!" (Romans 11:33)

You declare blasphemy according to... genetics?

I wouldn't be in you shoes for the wide world.

Although it is done somewhat less openly by proponents of intelligent design, both try to justify their insults addressed at God the Creator, ironically, by appeal to particular interpretations of a book they believe that He wrote.

Interpretations?

"So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind" (Gen. 1:21).

To pretend it doesn't say what it simply does say based on 'interpretation' is like trying to convince a police officer that you shouldn't get a ticket because of your interpretation of the speed limit - sure it said maximum 50, but you really thought that should mean maximum 50,000,000, so who is he to argue?

But which is easier to interpret - texts written in human languages, or scientific data? While scientists know better than to say the equivalent of "we don't interpret the data - we just read it," there is a sense in which this statement would make somewhat more sense, and be slightly more true, in the case of the natural sciences than in the case of reading texts.

Please. You clearly don't know anything about interpreting data.

Furthermore, anyone can write a book claiming to be by or about God or to reveal the truth. It is much harder to make a planet, or life, let alone a universe.

So if we have to question one, then we question the Bible?

Yikes.

And so, if one believes that there is a Creator and wants to get an appropriate sense of the majesty, power, wisdom and activity of that Creator, should one look to texts written by people (whether divinely inspired or not) or to the creation itself?

You're really fleshing out the paganism here, not just by exalting human wisdom to divine status, but now the visible things of creation over the Word of God.

In essence, creation is a better witness to the creators act than is scripture.

Wow.

And yet God says the exact opposite: "Has not my hand made all these things, and so they came into being?" declares the LORD. "This is the one I esteem: he who is humble and contrite in spirit, and trembles at my word" (Isaiah 66:2).

Notice it does not say 'and trembles at the creation'.

"And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars--all the heavenly array--do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the LORD your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven" (Deut 4:19).

Its like you are burning your "incense on the roofs to all the starry hosts and poured out drink offerings to other gods" (Jer. 19:13).

You take mans guess (which changes every day with each new discovery, each new theory, and each new retraction... never even with the pretense of solidarity) over Gods word, which is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens (Psalm 119:89).

"For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from Gods sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account" (Hebrews 4:12-13).

[OldEnglishSheepdog]

Jesus himself once used the same rhetorical device:

When Jesus saw their reaction he said, Why do you respond with evil in your hearts? Which is easier, to say, Your sins are forgiven or to say, Stand up and walk? But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins then he said to the paralytic Stand up, take your stretcher, and go home. And he stood up and went home.

~ Matthew 9:4-7

That is what you consider Jesus suggesting the Word of God is less trustworthy than mans guess? Thats deplorable.

Keep flipping through that gospel until you get to chapter 15, in which it says:

But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition... Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men (Matt 15:3-9).

To allow one's interpretation of texts to trump scientific evidence,

That ever elusive evidence that no one will present.

motivate you to distort that evidence,

No it doesnt.

Show me where weve been motivated to distort the evidence.

Is that really something you know about us, or is that nothing?

motivate you to insult thousands of committed believers who work in the natural sciences,

Evolution is the insult, and were trying to help them towards that realization.

Cute, how youve come here to insult all of our intelligence, though you dont seem able to keep up with the conversation on either an empirical nor Biblical basis, and fault us on a Christian forum for believing what God actually said.

Wait, thats not cute. Not at all.

and motivate you to describe as inappropriate methods of creation things that the evidence suggests actually happened

Right, that evidence again. Keep forgetting about all that evidence.

isn't a group, individual or movement with these characteristics rightly described as blasphemous?

No.

Not at all.

No.

Not in the least.

Absolutely not.

No.

A resounding no.

Wow, no.

Really, no.

Are you serious? No.

No, no, no.

I'm sorry to have to say this, but thats just a terribly stupid thing to say.

It is difficult to draw an analogy between the interpretation of literature

The literature in question being the Word of God. Its important to keep that clear, since the word 'liturature' spans everything from natural science publications to stereo instructions, none of which are truth save the Word of God alone (John 17:17).

and the interpretation of empirical evidence.

Ah, evidence thats what skipped my mind.

Yet the question remains for young-earth creationists remains, if my reading of the creation narrative in the Bible is true, why is science so woefully wrong on this one point?

First because it contradicts the word of God, second because it leads to the kind of paganistic blasphemy youre issuing here, third because it defies empirical observation as weve gone into in detail and the challenges of which have not been at all adequately addressed by yourself or anyone else, and forth because it defies common sense.

In closing, your epistemology is Gnosticism. Youre exalting the speculations of man as truth and using them over the Word of God, which is paganism, handing over attributes of the Creator to the creation, even trusting the foolishness of creation to speak to the unsearchable truth of God and contradict His infallible Word.

The following passage outlines what God decreed for those who made such suggestions under the Law. Dont consider yourself fortunate that instead of facing judgment at human hands, youll instead need to account to the Almighty Himself (Hebrews 9:27):

If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. And you shall stone him with stones until he dies, because he sought to entice you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. So all Israel shall hear and fear, and not again do such wickedness as this among you (Deut. 13:6-11).

[LLC]

First of all OldEnlighsheepdog, I would like to thank you for giving my post a worthy rebuttal.

My debates with you have been very stimulating and informative, but unfortunately I have but no more responses. I can point you to studies and experiments proving that the earth is older than ten thousands of years, or that evolution is the best available theory to explain the complexity of life in the world we see; but I cannot force you to read them or understand them.

Ultimately, I do not care what you or anyone else beliefs, as long as their is a rational justification. I think the most that anyone could do is to be a good person and live their life to the fullest.

[OldEnglishSheepdog]

First of all OldEnlighsheepdog, I would like to thank you for giving my post a worthy rebuttal.

My debates with you have been very stimulating and informative, but unfortunately I have but no more responses. I can point you to studies and experiments proving that the earth is older than ten thousands of years, or that evolution is the best available theory to explain the complexity of life in the world we see; but I cannot force you to read them or understand them.

Ultimately, I do not care what you or anyone else beliefs, as long as their is a rational justification. I think the most that anyone could do is to be a good person and live their life to the fullest.

Thank you for your cordial response.

While I am familiar with what naturalistic scientists claim, I in turn can point you towards countless flaws and contradictions that are simply underplayed in order to maintain such claims, noted by qualified and accomplished geologists such as Dr. Silvestru, Carl Froede Jr, Dr. Kurt P Wise, Dr. Arial Roth, Dr. Andrew Snelling, Dr. Elaine Kennedy, Dr. John Morris and so forth.

While I also couldnt force you to read these challenges, There are approximately 70 methods of dating the Earth. Each is based on the principle that natural processes have occurred steadily through time, producing cumulative results that can be measured. These studies reveal the upper age of the Earth. Only a few of them suggest the Earth is very old. These are the ones the secular press emphasizes to the uninformed public (source: http://www.nelsonprice.com/?p=166), and among these few methods are some of the myriad problems and assumptions addressed by the partial list of experts I provided above.

So, when we talk about these considerations, were not discussing the facts, but how to interpret those facts. Many brilliant, accomplished and able people have a vastly different interpretation and present solid and defensible reasons for their interpretations, which I find to be more empirically consistent on the whole (though both sides have their individual case studies which present interesting challenges).

Apart from that, I must also disagree that anyone can be a good person: There is no one righteous, not even one, there is no one who understands, there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away, together they have become worthless; there is no one who shows kindness, not even one. Their throats are open graves, they deceive with their tongues, the poison of asps is under their lips. Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness. Their feet are swift to shed blood, ruin and misery are in their paths, and the way of peace they have not known. There is no fear of God before their eyes (Romans 3:10-18), which I think is an integral part of the gospel message, and that in Jesus is the Word of God (John 1:1; Rev. 19:3) and that in that word alone is life, and most abundantly so (John 10:10).

[nChrist]

Amen Shiloh357! - Excellent Post!

Everything I need to know about creation is in Genesis and other portions of the Holy Bible. I will take God at His Word beyond any doubt. The CREATOR obviously knows more about His Creation than the created do. The theory of evolution would have us believe things in a backward and opposite manner: man started out as a lower form and evolved upward through various forms - including monkeys. God states that man was created in the image of God - perfect from the start. If anything, man devolved from that state of perfection because of sin and the consequences of sin.

Genesis 1:26-28 KJV And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

It does boil down to either believing God or calling Him a liar. I will believe God.

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh357, Great post! I enjoyed reading your point of view. Personally, I feel that Creationism and Intelligent Design are both Blasphemous to some extent.

No, it is those who deny God as Creator and thus by extenstion as , Sovereign Judge, Lawgiver and Redeemer who are closer to blasphemy. I am upholding the Bible's account for the origin of life.

Secondly, I think someone needs to explain to you what "blasphemy" is. Blasphemy as it applies to God, is rooted in an attitude of rebellion against God. It is a conscious, calm, determined act of defiance against God. It is an open-eyed rejection of the truth of who God is in an attempt to publicaly defame and injure His reputation.

EVEN IF (for the sake of argument) I am wrong about the origins of life, believing God is the Creator of all life and upholding the biblical account would still not rise to the correct definition of "blasphemy."

Both work with the assumption that God would only have created in a certain way, and would not work through processes such as those that biologists, geneticists, and paleontologists study.

Which is not an act of blasphmey. The truth is that God WOULD and DID only create in a certain way, and He has left His signature on His Creation. All of the created order is a testimony to the eternal truth that the Sovereign God of the Bible created all that we know and He, by right of creation is due all of our praise, worship and it is our duty to glorify Him for all He has made.

And since the evidence is more than adequate to demonstrate that the history of life on this planet followed a course that is described in more-or-less accurate terms by mainstream science, with processes at work that are at least partially described and accounted for by mainstream evolutionary theory, there is only one conclusion that a religious believer who is well-informed about science can draw:

Both young-earth creationism and intelligent design insult the Creator and demean creation.

That is your own (and that of other fallible humans) feeble interpretation of the evidence. A book is proof of its author, a painting is proof of its artist, a song is proof of its composer and creation is proof of its Creator.

Although it is done somewhat less openly by proponents of intelligent design, both try to justify their insults addressed at God the Creator, ironically, by appeal to particular interpretations of a book they believe that He wrote.

So I take it you don't believe the Bible is God's inspired word?

Furthermore, anyone can write a book claiming to be by or about God or to reveal the truth.

Mankind would never have written a book even remotely like the Bible. Human nature the world over is, at its core, offended at the teachings of the Bible. Human nature would never have created a book that is so damning of mankind delivers such offensive assessments of man's overall depravity and spiritual inadequacy.

It is much harder to make a planet, or life, let alone a universe. And so, if one believes that there is a Creator and wants to get an appropriate sense of the majesty, power, wisdom and activity of that Creator, should one look to texts written by people (whether divinely inspired or not) or to the creation itself? In essence, creation is a better witness to the creator