Creation: Essential for a Healthy Christian Worldview

[LLC]

You have convinced me that evolution is false and the approximated age of the earth (4.558 billion years) is far from the truth. If everything that has been said about the means by which evidence for these theories have been collected, plotted, and interpreted, there should be no reason for me, or anyone in the scientific community, to believe in them.

Now that we got that out of the way, show me your empirically verifiable evidence for both creationism and the real age of the earth (about 6000-10000 years). Don't show me Bible verses (I know what the Bible says), show me the same type of evidence that you demanded from me for my previous assertions.

[Guest]

You have convinced me that evolution is false and the approximated age of the earth (4.558 billion years) is far from the truth. If everything that has been said about the means by which evidence for these theories have been collected, plotted, and interpreted, there should be no reason for me, or anyone in the scientific community, to believe in them.

Now that we got that out of the way, show me your empirically verifiable evidence for both creationism and the real age of the earth (about 6000-10000 years). Don't show me Bible verses (I know what the Bible says), show me the same type of evidence that you demanded from me for my previous assertions.

If You Will Not Believe

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.

Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. James 4:4-10

You Will See This Holy Book From God

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. John 12:48

You See

Behold, in this thou art not just: I will answer thee, that God is greater than man.

Why dost thou strive against him? for he giveth not account of any of his matters.

For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not. Job 33:12-14

And Dear One, Despite The "Scientific" Pagan Jargon

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 2 Peter 3:5-6

You Know

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:20

You Know The Truth

The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life. Job 33:4

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Believe

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:35-36

And Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe

[LLC]

Joe, thanks for your insight. However, for the sake of this conversation I am looking for the same type of empirically verifiable evidence that was demanded of me for my previous assertions.

[Guest]

Joe, thanks for your insight. However, for the sake of this conversation I am looking for the same type of empirically verifiable evidence that was demanded of me for my previous assertions.

Beloved You Are Welcome

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Corinthians 5:20-21

And Dear One Do Know That To Stand On Ones Own Goodness

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

Their feet are swift to shed blood:

Destruction and misery are in their ways:

And the way of peace have they not known: Romans 3:10-17

Is Beyond Foolishness Even For An Avid Follower Of The Evolutionary Mythos

There is no fear of God before their eyes. Romans 3:18

Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe

[nChrist]

You have convinced me that evolution is false and the approximated age of the earth (4.558 billion years) is far from the truth. If everything that has been said about the means by which evidence for these theories have been collected, plotted, and interpreted, there should be no reason for me, or anyone in the scientific community, to believe in them.

Now that we got that out of the way, show me your empirically verifiable evidence for both creationism and the real age of the earth (about 6000-10000 years). Don't show me Bible verses (I know what the Bible says), show me the same type of evidence that you demanded from me for my previous assertions.

Good, you're making progress. What's left of the theory that man evolved from monkeys is hanging from a thread of hoaxes and a vivid imagination that isn't science at all. As a contrast, God's Word has stood these thousands of years and will endure forever. Verifiable evidence of the Creator's Work surrounds you, and the wise know that the work is His. He set the laws of nature in place as no other entity could have. It all boils down to common sense of the created man who has no other reasonable explanation and never will. So, all of the correct answers are in God's Word, the Holy Bible.

Psalms 19:1-14 KJV The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. 2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. 3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. 4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, 5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. 6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. 7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. 8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. 10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. 11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward. 12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults. 13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression. 14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

[Guest yod]

I believe that God created the heavens and the earth just like He said in the book of Genesis.

Evolution has some merit (we all evolve over time) but there is no evidence that one species can evolve into another species. In fact, science proves that to be impossible so science itself is the best argument against evolution.

But I don't believe the scriptures necessarily force us into an earth that is only a few thousands of years old, either. Humanity as we know it may be that "young" but it doesn't necessarily mean that the Creation is. If one can suspend their preconceived ideas about the length of time we presume the word "yom" means, it shows that science agrees on the sequence of events that Moses had no way of knowing, yet got correct.

So then we are left with defining the length of a "yom" (which has it's primary definition as "age" or "epoch") and it can be anywhere from a nanosecond to a bazillion years that way.

The point of the Creation story wasn't to give us an exact scientific report.

[LLC]

I believe that God created the heavens and the earth just like He said in the book of Genesis.

Evolution has some merit (we all evolve over time) but there is no evidence that one species can evolve into another species. In fact, science proves that to be impossible so science itself is the best argument against evolution.

But I don't believe the scriptures necessarily force us into an earth that is only a few thousands of years old, either. Humanity as we know it may be that "young" but it doesn't necessarily mean that the Creation is. If one can suspend their preconceived ideas about the length of time we presume the word "yom" means, it shows that science agrees on the sequence of events that Moses had no way of knowing, yet got correct.

So then we are left with defining the length of a "yom" (which has it's primary definition as "age" or "epoch") and it can be anywhere from a nanosecond to a bazillion years that way.

The point of the Creation story wasn't to give us an exact scientific report.

I'm glad that you don't read the Bible as a science textbook; I believe that no person should. However you still fail to provide empirically verifiable evidence for Creation. As mentioned before, evidence against evolution is not evidence for Creationism. We are looking for the most scientifically accurate explanation for the complexity of life we currently observe. Please read the whole thread before you comment next time.

[Guest yod]

However you still fail to provide empirically verifiable evidence for Creation.

have you ever seen the sky? how about a tree?

The (scientific) fact that there is a creation, is proof that there is a Creator.

How He did it, and who He is might be, is another debate, but the evidence is clear.

Throw a fish on the shore every day for a billion years and you'll have billions of dead fishes, not a monkey.

Please read the whole thread before you comment next time.

I've read it a thousand times over the last 9 years...but thanks for your kindness anyway

[OldEnglishSheepdog]

I'm glad that you don't read the Bible as a science textbook; I believe that no person should. However you still fail to provide empirically verifiable evidence for Creation. As mentioned before, evidence against evolution is not evidence for Creationism. We are looking for the most scientifically accurate explanation for the complexity of life we currently observe. Please read the whole thread before you comment next time.

Geology (stratigraphy) was invented by a man named Steno. He looked at fossils and he looked at strata and he recognized the signature left by the flood, and while uniformitarians used to insist that it took x number of thousands of years to form each layer, we've seen from the strata laid down at the Mt. St. Helens eruption that this was totally fictitious speculation on their part. The interpretation was guided only by bias.

Three-quarters of the world's surface is covered in sedimentary deposits, including across deserts and on mountain tops, demonstrating that the world was covered in water at some point in time or other, whether in a single event or a series of local events that would require some ad hoc gymnastics to account for without spanning into a global event (since sediment is found on mountain tops).

At some point in the earth's history a catastrophic event wiped out most of the world's mega fauna.

Fossils require sudden emersion to petrify in order to escape the ravages of bacterial deterioration. Fossils are created only under a very specific lithographic process which required terribly unusual and inexplicable chemical interactions. So in order to account for fossils both because they had to be suddenly emerged in either flood or volcanic deposits and that since rare chemical reactions were necessary, it would stand to reason that a single event of singular magnitude would account for the results because it could reasonably be assumed that it could globally trigger consistent conditions to that effect, but ad hoc explanations are vastly more difficult to support.

Further, we've seen from the coelacanth blunder that indexing fossils that are used to date strata are a farce. Coelacanth fossils were used to index any strata and accompanying fossils at 70,000,000 years at a glance, until a living coelacanth was discovered in an Indian (if I remember correctly) market, in the 1930's or thereabouts. The explanation that's offered is that they 'found a niche' for the last seventy million years, which is fine and all, but two realizations emerge from that discovery.

First, is that the proto-lungs and limbs this supposedly transitional organism was proclaimed to have evolved were not there. The interpretation of the skeletal structure was bunk, demonstrating that is was guided by bias, not fact.

And second, since the discovery of a hitherto thought long since extinct organism is very rare assumptions and interpretations surrounding index fossils cannot be empirically validated... but when it just so happened to occur it demonstrated that naturalists didn't have a clue what they were talking about, both relating to anatomical assumptions and evolutionary implications, as well as relating to dating strata according to animals that could 'find a niche' for 70,000,000 years, dating all accompanying fossils and strata totally arbitrarily using this indexing method.

The facts of the above are ones on which everyone agrees, so it’s the interpretation of those facts upon which we differ. You could create ad hoc explanations to try to account for the multiplicity of particulars within the multiple considerations listed above (to which we could add countless others) but Occam’s razor points to the simplest explanation with the greatest explanatory scope, and a global, catastrophic flood accounts for everything very well - and the global catestrophic flood is not part of the naturalist model, but the Biblical one.

We could get into little particulars like the discovery of carbon 16 in diamonds (which should have long ago decayed into C14 if the old ages are correct), or the helium levels found in rocks (which should have escaped long ago after the radioactive decay took place), but those things are all built on compounding guess work and there’s so much on either side, none of the measurements or analysis of which we can observe for ourselves to examine specific assumptions, practices or methods, so I personally feel less inclined to burn just too much time on that kind of thing, but as I mentioned before, of the 70 or so methods of dating the earth only a few may be interpreted to demonstrate old ages.

[LLC]

Thank you OldEnglishsheepdog for actually providing evidence instead of telling me to 'look at the sky or a tree'. A lot of this information suffices as evidence to support the biblical claim of the flood and disproof for evolution. If you are trying to convince me that the Story of Noah's ark is in fact true, than all of this information is extremely relevant. However I do not accept the assertion that if we can prove the Bible to be true on one account, then it must be true on all accounts. The need for specific and relevant evidence for Creation still remains.

Edited April 27, 2011 by LLC