Eleven Christians Arrested and Jailed For Sharing

[Guest DarkFenix]

She???

Well sorry for the missguided assumptions. I guess that is what the internet is for.

You dont see were Im coming from. I have a problem with the concept of emeny territory.

EMENY TERRITORY implies that the EMENY wants to attack you. You are only in emeny territory if in the "territory" you are in is full of ememies trying to attack you. Im sorry but that is just not the case. Im am sure that the gays she has tired to save were not on a active anti-christin campainge. Quite franckly Im sure they felt the same way about her as I do about them. THEY DONT CARE. Which is really the whole point. No one cares. (well at least most dont) That is why missionary work to save people has a HIGH rate of failure. Most people have a world view that makes them feel just fine ( even if not in the long term ) therefore they have NO need or any other world view even if it is a better one. Which in turn is why most people just DONT WANT YOU TO BROTHER THEM. Because really that is all you are doing. If someone is unsure, if someone feels that somehow their lifestyle is making them feel empty believe me, they will JUMP on the prospect of there being a better way, they WILL go and look for that better way.

Sure you can go around trying to spread the word. That is a great and comendable activity. Im sure there will be some who you will help out only if a very few. There will be some lifes changed. But that is a long way from saying you are in emeny territory.

Which again just brings up the problem with the whole concept, because by defenition the people you are trying to save ARE YOUR EMENIES. This is NOT a very helpfull mentality to have.

Edited December 29, 2004 by DarkFenix

[refugepsa91]

DarkFenix,

I do see to a point where you are coming from...I truly do. But as an example not to de-rail the topic...consider this...

Your child attending a public school...the school has a assembly (isn't that what they call them?) The parents weren't informed what the topic of the assembly was going to be...bear with me here...your child comes home and shows you brochures and talks about the content of said assembly, now you find out it was about being gay...and how its ok...and how its healthy to experiment...etc..etc...I could go on but I think you catch my drift. At a certian point a stand NEEDS to be taken...as far as bothering them goes...then they extend the same courtesy...stay out of our schools...now if you were meaning another country, I can see where the "just don't bother us" comes from. I may not agree with it..but I can see your meaning.

So you see we are on "enemy territory" so to speak....Yes we can chose to stay away from it...and most do for that matter...but the sad fact of the matter is that WE are being bashed over the head with it...and left cleaning up after they put all this stuff in our kids mind.

See where I'm coming from here?

Love and Blessings,

Angel

[Ovedya]

EMENY TERRITORY implies that the EMENY wants to attack you. You are only in emeny territory if in the "territory" you are in is full of ememies trying to attack you. Im sorry but that is just not the case. Im am sure that the gays she has tired to save were not on a active anti-christin campainge.

That may be true. However, it still could have been considered "enemy territory" in the sense that many homosexuals are God's enemies. Just in the same way that any unbeliever is God's enemy:

"For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son..." (Rom. 5:10a)

Quite franckly Im sure they felt the same way about her as I do about them. THEY DONT CARE. Which is really the whole point. No one cares. (well at least most dont) That is why missionary work to save people has a HIGH rate of failure.

Actually, missionary work does not have a high failure rate.

Most people have a world view that makes them feel just fine ( even if not in the long term ) therefore they have NO need or any other world view even if it is a better one. Which in turn is why most people just DONT WANT YOU TO BROTHER THEM. Because really that is all you are doing. If someone is unsure, if someone feels that somehow their lifestyle is making them feel empty believe me, they will JUMP on the prospect of there being a better way, they WILL go and look for that better way.

The problem with generalizations is that unless you really know how "most people" feel, then you really don't have any authority to speak on their behalf. Actually, many people in the world are very open to discussion about religion, and particularly about the gospel. Preaching the gospel in other countries is a lot easier than it is in the United Staes in many cases, from what I have heard, because other cultures do not have the same, "Leave me alone" mentality that Americans do.

Sure you can go around trying to spread the word. That is a great and comendable activity. Im sure there will be some who you will help out only if a very few. There will be some lifes changed. But that is a long way from saying you are in emeny territory.

Which again just brings up the problem with the whole concept, because by defenition the people you are trying to save ARE YOUR EMENIES. This is NOT a very helpfull mentality to have.

You make a good point. However, given the context of the original story, do you believe that what these Christians are going through is just and right. According to what I read these people did nothing illegal. They had a sign, some Bibles, and they were legally within their rights to stand on the sidewalk and preach the word out loud. They did not intimidate anyone, nor did they violently try to stop the parade. They were simply exercizing their constitutional rights. I think that it's safe to say that, given the what happened, these so called "Pink Angels" made enemies of themselves.

[Guest DarkFenix]

content of said assembly, now you find out it was about being gay...and how its ok...and how its healthy to experiment...etc..etc...

Intesting point. But bear with me here please..... they are right. I mean you who may have more experiance then me in this tell me,... in this secular world will they have a problem??? Is not what your angry about specifically that all of a sudden everyone ( buisness, army, politics,.....) are acccepting them??? It would seem, at least in a secular sense, that really they shoulnt be all that worried about their lifestyle. What is again that they are losing???

Will they be in conflict with what is written in the bible. YES. But then I guess your REAL problem is not that they are gay and exposeing said lifestyle,.... but that they are UNCHRISTEN and that the school board is showing your child a life without christianity, which I guess is a valid point. But If I were you, believe me, what my child see's in SCHOOL IS NOT what I'd be worried about as far as un-christin goes in this crazy modern world of ours. And quite frankly it is their RIGHT to show said un-religously guided life after all is it not a PUBLIC SCHOOL. A SECULAR public school. What would you have them teach BUT seclur world views????? It would be a little more then unfair to place the whole said assembly in order and have them sit through a christin sermon everyday. In fact it would be more then unfair; it would be unethical. And illegal according to the constitution. Heck even I would complain. If you dont like it, which you have EVERY right not to like there ARE private christin schools. Expensive say you. Explain the concept of christ charity to said private schools. OR START YOUR OWN. Either way you WILL have to prepare you child to confornt unchristanity, everyday, and in every moment of his life. And the sooner the better.

And addiontionlly you've got to take it into context. For the most part said assemblies only want to alliveate the sexual presures that teens face and give them a healthy ( or at least, secluarlly ) prepective so that they DONT spend their lives with mental issuse. Frankly I would rather have a gay son, then one that due to my intolorance leads a life of misery, selfdoubt, selfhate, and relentless regret. Of all the evils in the world, I am SURE AS DAY convinced that said secluar school talks really amount to anything, and even if then, only to a VERY small degree. Does who want to get lost will get lost.

We've all got to take a stand. But the school sex assembly is not the time nor the place of our stand. Our stand comes at a time and a place we wont be so comfortable with stand up to.

Again the "emeny terrorty" thing brothers me because well WE ALL SHARE THE SAME TERRITORY. If we go around calling each other enemies we will get nowere fast.

Edited December 29, 2004 by DarkFenix

[Ovedya]

And addiontionlly you've got to take it into context. For the most part said assemblies only want to alliveate the sexual presures that teens face and give them a healthy ( or at least, secluarlly ) prepective so that they DONT spend their lives with mental issuse.

So if the schools did not hold these assemblies then young people would suffer from mental or emotional instability? I don't think so.

I think that if you examine the facts a little more closely this is just the school's pro-active measure to avoid a discrimination lawsuit. If a gay kid is punched in the face or beat upon by other students, the school can state that they are not liable because they held these assemblies.

But overall there is a definite pattern in the public school systems which began back in the 70's with the advent of "sex-ed" of promoting promiscuity under the guise of "safe sex." In fact, it has been proven that teenage promiscuity increased along with teen pregnancy, and the age at which young people begin "experimenting" with sex, since "sex-ed" began being taught in the public schools. Numbers have gone down in recent years only because some parents are beginnig to take charge and talk to their kids about abstinence. Also, STD's has a lot to do with the decrease, and some - some - schools are teaching abstinence also.

Tennagers don't have any hangups about sex. They know what goes where long before parents even have the first opportunity to sit them down and go through all the gorry details with them. My 12-year-old daughter knew about it before her mother and I sat her down and striaghtened her out.

The bottom line with sex-ed in the schools is that it should never have been brought in in the first place. These kinds of subjects with political and social issues behind them should never be discussed in public education, and they should never - never - be part of the mandatory curriculum. Some teachers hav strong political/social agendas to push, and public schools have recently become forums for anybody with a bone to pick, to push their agenda upon our kids.

[Catsmeow]

Which again just brings up the problem with the whole concept, because by defenition the people you are trying to save ARE YOUR EMENIES. This is NOT a very helpfull mentality to have.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lack of experience, my friend.

You've never seen the enormous effort that goes into saving wildlife, who's very existence is in peril. You have to guard not only their own safety but yours as well. While your intention is to save them from themselves, the poor indigenous creature doesn't know that.

Here's a more practical example. Steve Erwin (Crock Hunter) has a deep love for the crocks he saves. Many of them must be relocated to safer habitats or even provided with necessary medical intervention.

Still, despite his noble intent to save the animal, the crock would mistake him for a meal.

You need more life experience to see the broad experience. Love doesn't mean being "best buddies". It means doing what is in the BEST interest of the person or creature.

As a naturalist and one who studies wildlife habitats, I know it's possible to save bear cubs who've been orphaned. Nevertheless, we endeavor to avoid human bonding with the bears in order to preserve their natural fear of man. This is for their own benefit.

Life isn't so "black and white"....

By the way, the man in Taiwan who was preaching to the lions was on heavy antidepressants and was DX'd as psychotic. You left that fact out.

[Guest DarkFenix]

if the schools did not hold these assemblies then young people would suffer from mental or emotional instability? I don't think so.

Niether do I.

I think that if you examine the facts a little more closely this is just the school's pro-active measure to avoid a discrimination lawsuit. If a gay kid is punched in the face or beat upon by other students, the school can state that they are not liable because they held these assemblies.

I agree.

But overall there is a definite pattern in the public school systems which began back in the 70's with the advent of "sex-ed" of promoting promiscuity under the guise of "safe sex." In fact, it has been proven that teenage promiscuity increased along with teen pregnancy, and the age at which young people begin "experimenting" with sex, since "sex-ed" began being taught in the public schools. Numbers have gone down in recent years only because some parents are beginnig to take charge and talk to their kids about abstinence. Also, STD's has a lot to do with the decrease, and some - some - schools are teaching abstinence also.

Or that this pattern is the result that BEFORE sex-ed said incidents of sexual promiscity WERE NOT REPORTED because of the attitude that anythin sexual as a no no? That we ALL OF A SUDDEN are all into sex from even at a young is IS A COMPLETE MYTH. It has ALWAYS been that way. Its just people WOULDNT TALK ABOUT IT IN PUBLIC.

Tennagers don't have any hangups about sex. They know what goes where long before parents even have the first opportunity to sit them down and go through all the gorry details with them. My 12-year-old daughter knew about it before her mother and I sat her down and striaghtened her out.

Having no "hangups" about sex.........and that is a bad thing because.........

The bottom line with sex-ed in the schools is that it should never have been brought in in the first place. These kinds of subjects with political and social issues behind them should never be discussed in public education, and they should never - never - be part of the mandatory curriculum. Some teachers hav strong political/social agendas to push, and public schools have recently become forums for anybody with a bone to pick, to push their agenda upon our kids.

You've got a point there,.... but then sexedu was done for a reason now wasnt it? Because PARENTS WERE NOT DOING IT. I think it has served a good purpose. Now people like YOU are motivated to teach their kids instead of letting the schools do it.

But was you would say,...........

YOU ARE RABBIT TAILING WAY WAY WAY OFF TOPIC

Edited December 29, 2004 by DarkFenix

[apothanein kerdos]

When we say "enemy territory" we are not refering to the people. The people are merely captives within enemy territory...captives which must willingly choose to leave.

[Ovedya]

Or that this pattern is the result that BEFORE sex-ed said incidents of sexual promiscity WERE NOT REPORTED because of the attitude that anythin sexual as a no no? That we ALL OF A SUDDEN are all into sex from even at a young is IS A COMPLETE MYTH. It has ALWAYS been that way. Its just people WOULDNT TALK ABOUT IT IN PUBLIC.

[Guest DarkFenix]

When we say "enemy territory" we are not refering to the people. The people are merely captives within enemy territory...captives which must willingly choose to leave.

Well from that prespective then you have a much better point. I admire you for seeing that the "enemy territory" line needed the change in wording.

Dearest Ove,

Why such a limited view of things?

There was never any evidence that sexual promiscuity was the direct result of parental refusal or neglect.

For the sake of not losing face are you abosultly SURE you want to stick to that statment?

It was not that sex was never taught inthe homes because parents were afraid or too prudish to teach their kids about it. It was not because parents even neglected to teach their kids about sex.

So, it was not thought because........

In fact, sexual education in the homes has always been part and parcel with the moral education that parents are naturally responsible to impart to their children

Which is why kids when placed under statistical surveys responsed VERY (dangersously) PROORLY regarding their level of human sexual understanding during said time period? Or do I HAVE to again link up the said statistical recoreds???

And whether you believe it or not, there is a "gay agenda."

Which I believe is your main problem right there. Where in the world do you get this? Is the gay agenda to make everyone gay? In that case I think THEY WILL FAIL HORRIBLY. And so I laugh in their face. That is not an "agenda". That is delusional thinking.

That is to promote homosexuality as a norm in our society, when there is no scientific, cultural, or moral evidence to suggest that it has ever been normal behavior.

1. Has there EVER been a scientific cultrual or moral way of defineing normal? The bible comes very close,.... but even then we dont all wear same cloth interweaving TUNICS now do we?

2. The one thing that HAS been very accurate is that what is "normal" changes ALOT with time.

3. Therefore I define what is "normal" to humanity in the terms of what has been with us the longest. In that case homosexuality is VERY normal. ( With God being the MOST NORMAL THING IN THE ENTIRE WORLD ) Now cds, cars, airplanes, polyster, non-preordained marriage, civil rights, and democracy are VERY not "normal.

Gays and transgendered persons are seeking...

......to not be treated like the lowest trash in the world. END OF STORY. Are you able to comprehend the INSANE amount of discrimination these people put up with EVERYDAY??? I am surpised they are not MORE militant. Are they stupid shortsighted and in the end only hurting themselfs,.... yes, sure. But yet again IT IS THEIR CHOICE to make.

All one need do is look at the pattern to see this fact...

no offense in the sincirest and most compassinate sense possible, but for someone so willing to give their thoughts on gays,... you seem to know VERY little about human homosexuallity, and sexuality (and human social behavior) in general. You seem to take the view that somehow sex as regards human affairs is the new kid on the block. Notwithstanding, I hope that you can see that living under the threat, living in a constant state of anxity and paranoia as if you are in constant attack, is NOT a good and healthy thing to do.

Do not forget God is on YOUR SIDE.