Guest sheepish Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 (edited) Hello, Super Jew. I do not know what you are talking about. You were not at the event, and you do not know what was said, or what the signs said. Nobody held a sign saying "you are going to hell". Nobody screamed "you are going to hell". Though there was sufficient warning, it was not given without the Good News. Why do you presume to know our demeanor when you did not witness it, and know not one thing about us? Dear sir, you wrote this,Jesus, in Matthew 4:17, was not toting around a sign saying, "You're going to hell." Instead, while He began to preach His message of "repent and believe", when we look at the Bible it was done with love and temperrence. Likewise, when we look to the apostles, we see the same thing. However when we look to these protesters, we see no such thing. now please back up your claim that we did not minister in the same way. I was there. I heard the preaching. Considering the foul language and billigerance that the man was met with, his obvious concern and compassion almost moved me to tears. The signs that were held were nothing more than Scripture verses. The message preached was one of repentance, faith and salvation. I do not understand, where do you find fault with that? Brother, I am serious. You keep talking about loving the lost, and I agree with you; but what about love for the brethren? Why do you not give us the benefit of any doubt you may have? Why do you think the very worst of us? Dear sir, I say the truth in Christ and lie not--I begged the Lord to use our efforts that day. Before leaving, and while they were screaming and taunting, I prayed that even if just one heart were touched, that it would bring forth fruit unto repentance and salvation. I prayed the Lord to be our banner, and His Spirit to be the vehicle for the message, even to convict their hearts. I can say for myself and I am sure everybody else that was there--in the Lord I loved those people. I wanted to cry at the hardened hearts, the lack of conviction and tears. If I were not a shy person, I may have tried to talk to some of them, but as it is, it was very loud and I suppose I was a little intimidated; although, not very much, there was such a peace in my heart so that the numbers were not too daunting. Brother, I am just confused at your obvious hate (or at best, extreme dislike) for us. I do not understand it. We did you no wrong. We did them no wrong. Is love passive? Is it some feeling that holds no conviction? You say that we did not go out there in love, and I have to ask how you can say that. You did not hear the message, and you did not see the opposition met with only peace, love and exhortation. You do not know what you are talking about when you say what you have said. You continue to hold to a lie, and by it harbor ought against your brothers and sisters in the Lord. Do you find no problem with that? It is serious, and I hope that you will see the error to repent of it, because I frankly do not understand the animosity, even in your talk of love. I think that maybe there is a problem that perhaps you do not see--and that is that you do not have that love for you own brothers and sisters in the Lord. Surely, you believe that when Jesus taught love for your enemies that it did not mean only the unregenerate, but the saved as well? (Not that we should be counted as your enemies). In the Lord and His service, Lauren Edited November 14, 2004 by sheepish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabowd Posted November 14, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 112 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,489 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 14, 2004 Picketing certain groups and telling them to repent is not evangelism, it is harrassment. Since when does the Holy Spirit need our help convicting the lost of their sin? Standing on a street corner, amid strangers, holding signs with Scriptures does not constitute being a "light" in the darkness. It completely removes the element of relationship, which is what Christ was all about. I'm appauled by Christians who exhibit this kind of self-righteousness..that they spend more time "warning" the lost of their impending damnation than they do ridding themselves of their arrogant, Pharisaical attiudes. Have you forgotten that your own sin of pride is as grotesque as homosexuality? What were the Scriptures that were on your signs? God's Word was never meant to be used as a weapon or a slogan. You don't draw ppl to Christ by condemning them or labeling them. You draw them to Christ by serving them, meeting their needs, washing their feet...through humility. If you truly do love these "sinners", here's my advice: put down your signs and pick up your cross. Lay down your life for the sake of ministering to those in need. Befriend them, touch them, hang around them wherever they are. Stop beating them over the head with Scripture and trust the Holy Spirit enough to do the convicting. And I encourage you to read this topic too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GstS Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 super jew wrote: "Unconstitutional in your own opinion." Amendment I "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." Their right to freely exercise religion was violated, their freedom of speech was denied, and though they were assembling peacefully, the fine men in blue imprisoned them. The first amendment is not all that hard to understand. Their constitutional rights were violated! super jew wrote: "Likewise, are you suggesting that they should have disobeyed their authority, something we're forbidden to do in the Bible?" The police disobeyed their authority, they took an oath to uphold the Constitution, not spit on it. The Constitution is their athority, they are bound to obey it. super jew wrote: "Legally it is the pastor's job. If he organized the event then he is the one that has to tell all of them to leave. If he didn't he violated his legal obligation and is the one that should be held responcible." Sir, actually you are wrong on this, but it's not worth the time to look up the law. super jew wrote: Jesus, in Matthew 4:17, was not toting around a sign saying, "You're going to hell." No, but he was preaching. And what makes you think that these protesters were holding signs that said "your going to hell"? super jew wrote: Likewise, when we look to the apostles, we see the same thing. Read the book of Acts. The apostles were often in confrontations and debates and yes thrown in jail. super jew wrote: However when we look to these protesters, we see no such thing. Sir, I beg to differ. You obviously do not know these people, so lets stop the lies and assertions shall we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted November 15, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 15, 2004 I do not know what you are talking about. You were not at the event, and you do not know what was said, or what the signs said. *cough* Nobody held a sign saying "you are going to hell". Nobody screamed "you are going to hell". Though there was sufficient warning, it was not given without the Good News. *cough* *cough* Why do you presume to know our demeanor when you did not witness it, and know not one thing about us? *cough* *cough* *cough* Dear sir, you wrote this, Jesus, in Matthew 4:17, was not toting around a sign saying, "You're going to hell." Instead, while He began to preach His message of "repent and believe", when we look at the Bible it was done with love and temperrence. Likewise, when we look to the apostles, we see the same thing. However when we look to these protesters, we see no such thing. now please back up your claim that we did not minister in the same way. Sorry about the coughs, I think I'm comming down with a cold. However, I think the links speak enough for themselves. Christ taught to the masses through example and through word. He never carried around a sign telling people that they are going to hell (as the links prove this did happen) nor did He drive around a camel with sign on the side saying, "You're insane" (again, as the links prove these Christians were doing). I was there. I heard the preaching. Considering the foul language and billigerance that the man was met with, his obvious concern and compassion almost moved me to tears. The signs that were held were nothing more than Scripture verses. The message preached was one of repentance, faith and salvation. I do not understand, where do you find fault with that? Shoving the Bible down the throats of a world thirsty for Christ's love isn't going to solve anything. Blockaiding them in an illegal manner and protesting does not represent Christ; it represents the dying Puritan within Christianity. Brother, I am serious. You keep talking about loving the lost, and I agree with you; but what about love for the brethren? Why do you not give us the benefit of any doubt you may have? Why do you think the very worst of us? I am more apt to question the brethren and go against them due to the fact that they aren't acting like the brethren. They represent the Savoir that I have come to know and love. I will always jump on Christians if they are wrong for Christians should know much better. I can say for myself and I am sure everybody else that was there--in the Lord I loved those people. I wanted to cry at the hardened hearts, the lack of conviction and tears. If I were not a shy person, I may have tried to talk to some of them, but as it is, it was very loud and I suppose I was a little intimidated; although, not very much, there was such a peace in my heart so that the numbers were not too daunting. Then why don't you take one of them out to lunch sometime? Why not go and invite them shopping, or to go have fun with you? If your heart breaks for them then develope a relationship with them. Shoving a cardboard sign in their face that says, "The wicked are going to hell" or "homosexuality is a sin" isn't going to lead them to repentence. Brother, I am just confused at your obvious hate (or at best, extreme dislike) for us. I do not understand it. We did you no wrong. We did them no wrong. You did Christ an injustice and Christians world wide a disservice. You took the Gospel of Christ and the plea to speak in truth and perverted it. Is love passive? Is it some feeling that holds no conviction? You say that we did not go out there in love, and I have to ask how you can say that. You did not hear the message, and you did not see the opposition met with only peace, love and exhortation. You do not know what you are talking about when you say what you have said. The fact you were there protesting in the way you did proves to me it was not done out of the love of Christ. Let me ask you, how many homosexual friends do you have? How many homosexuals have you lead to Christ in the methods you've used? Amendment I "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." Their right to freely exercise religion was violated, their freedom of speech was denied, and though they were assembling peacefully, the fine men in blue imprisoned them. The first amendment is not all that hard to understand. Their constitutional rights were violated! If there is a march by African-Americans and I walk into the middle of that march with a sign saying, "All blacks will go to hell", I will get arrested. The Constitution protects freedom of speech up to a certain point. However if it could incite fighting or violence then it is removed from the scene. The police disobeyed their authority, they took an oath to uphold the Constitution, not spit on it. The Constitution is their athority, they are bound to obey it. They are bound to follow their authority and how their authority interprets the scripture. If their authority is wrong then their authority can face the consequences later. Sir, actually you are wrong on this, but it's not worth the time to look up the law. I'm studying to become a lawyer and I can tell you right now that if the police officer told the preacher to leave and to tell the crowd to leave, the responcibility was then left up to the preacher (assuming he was the organizer of the event) to disperse his people. No, but he was preaching. And what makes you think that these protesters were holding signs that said "your going to hell"? The links I supplied. Read the book of Acts. The apostles were often in confrontations and debates and yes thrown in jail. This is terrible interpretation. These debates occured in Jewish temples where they were allowed to speak because they were Jews. Likewise they simply said that Jesus was the Messiah and were kicked out for that. Sir, I beg to differ. You obviously do not know these people, so lets stop the lies and assertions shall we. Sue me for liable if I'm lying. I say I'm telling the truth of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheepish Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 (edited) Super Jew, The links you provided were not of the event I attended. The first picture--the reason that sign was held is because our nation has forgotten God, as evidenced by the fact that she would sanction what God calls an abomination. It is Scripture, and is suitable. The second picture--the "insanity" sign on the truck, you can see, is about abortion. Yes, the fact that we kill 4,000 babies a day is definitely insane. The third picture--again, that is in front of the court where homosexuals are being accepted as "couples" and were being "married", when the Lord says that it is an abomination. The sign was perfectly suitable as those who are in authority were calling evil good, an evidence that we as nation are "wicked" and have "forgotten God". Now; what does this have to do with the event that I attended, and that you are saying I should have been arrested for, and shamed the name of Christ? Careful with your words, dear sir. I already know that you do not know what you are talking about, and I know the Lord does too. We did not shame Him. To compromise His truth and to be accepting of sin would shame Him. To leave out either the warning from sin, or the promise in Christ, would shame Him. We did no such thing. The message was preached in love. If you want to deny that, deny it. It won't change the truth one whit. Edited November 15, 2004 by sheepish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted November 15, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 15, 2004 Super Jew, The links you provided were not of the event I attended. The first picture--the reason that sign was held is because our nation has forgotten God, as evidenced by the fact that she would sanction what God calls an abomination. It is Scripture, and is suitable. The second picture--the "insanity" sign on the truck, you can see, is about abortion. Yes, the fact that we kill 4,00 babies a day is definitely insane. The third picture--again, that is in front of the court where homosexuals are being accepted as "couples" and were being "married", when the Lord says that it is an abomination. The sign was perfectly suitable as those who are in authority were calling evil good, an evidence that we as nation are "wicked" and have "forgotten God". Now; what does this have to do with the event that I attended, and that you are saying I should have been arrested for, and shamed the name of Christ? Careful with your words, dear sir. I already know that you do not know what you are talking about, and I know the Lord does too. We did not shame Him. To compromise His truth and to be accepting of sin would shame Him. To leave out either the warning from sin, or the promise in Christ, would shame Him. We did no such thing. The message was preached in love. If you want to deny that, deny it. It won't change the truth one whit. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Same organization, so the point is proven. Anyway, you were on government property, asked to leave, and you didn't. You violated the law. I've already proven how you misrepresented Christ...I don't need to prove it any further...that is, after all, the greater of the two crimes you committed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabowd Posted November 15, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 112 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,489 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 15, 2004 Awww, guess I'm invisible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasangel Posted November 15, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 70 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,513 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 39 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/19/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/27/1959 Share Posted November 15, 2004 I have sat back and watched several threads in the past year on the sugbject of speaking out for "causes". What I am asking right now is. If all these fringe groups like, gay rights, abortion supporters step on MY beliefs why is it considered wrong if I share my views with them? After all they protest using signs and sometimes violence but if I were to respond I, a Christian woman would be in the wrong if I use the same tactics to get my point across. What I am saying here is that the Constitution is for ALL people not some right wing liberals who want to pound this country into more and more sin. If someone has the gumption to stand up to these bullys they cry foul and whine about how they are being opressed and their rights stepped on. What about our rights? Do we not pay taxes? Do we not support our government according to biblical principals (well some of us anyway)? I get tired of someone with totally opposing lifestyles than my own trying to cram their rights down my throat. As far as I am concerned what they are trying to do is to get Christians to justify and condone their lifestyles. Not happening here folks. I can respect the person, I can respect but not condone their lifestyle but I cannot stand by and have this crap shoved down my throat without letting them know where I stand. Manure is still manure no matter if they are trying to disguise it by calling it something else. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GstS Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 jew wrote: If there is a march by African-Americans and I walk into the middle of that march with a sign saying, "All blacks will go to hell", I will get arrested. You would be a stupid racist that has no concept of what the Bible teaches. But you would be constitutionally protected. jew wrote: The Constitution protects freedom of speech up to a certain point. However if it could incite fighting or violence then it is removed from the scene. The police have a duty to protect the protesters constitutional right, if arrests need to be made, they should be made against those that are causing violence, not those peacefully standing on public property. You really should know that, studying to be a lawyer and all. jew wrote: They are bound to follow their authority and how their authority interprets the scripture. If their authority is wrong then their authority can face the consequences later. We're talking about the interpretation of the Constitution here, not the Bible. The police are bound to obey the Constitution, they swore an oath to do so. The Constitution is chains on the government not the people. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land (besides the Bible of course). jew wrote: I'm studying to become a lawyer and I can tell you right now that if the police officer told the preacher to leave and to tell the crowd to leave, the responcibility was then left up to the preacher (assuming he was the organizer of the event) to disperse his people. The police did not tell the crowd to leave that's the whole point. How were they charged with "failure to disperse" when they were not told to disperse? It's not the job of the preacher to give the group a disperse warning, it's the job of the police. jew wrote: Sue me for liable if I'm lying. I say I'm telling the truth of the situation. Were you one of these homos at the pride event? Were you one of these constitution smearing cops? Were you there??? jew wrote: Anyway, you were on government property, asked to leave, and you didn't. You violated the law. Public property, was NOT asked to leave, and was arrested. They violated NO LAW. They honored the Bible and the Constitution, glory to God. Really man you are getting your self in deep here with your lies. You better start retracting some of these statements or you will gain a bad reputation on this board. jew wrote: I've already proven how you misrepresented Christ...I don't need to prove it any further...that is, after all, the greater of the two crimes you committed. You have not proven anything, stop fooling yourself. The "protesters" used the same tactics as the Apostles did, they preached the word of God. The signs they were carrying had Scripture verses on them, you know the Bible, the Word of God? This violates Scripture in what way? And in what way did they break the law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GstS Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 tess wrote: Awww, guess I'm invisible. You contradicted yourself. You said: "trust the Holy Spirit enough to do the convicting." Yet your discussing tactics in saving souls. I'd rather reach the lost the way the Bible tells me to reach the lost and trust the Holy Spirit to do the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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