Adam And Eve - Just An Allegory?

[Mr. Nice Christian]

 

Even if Jesus did refer to a literal Adam, doesn't necesarrly mean that the entire creation story in Genesis is meant to be literal.

 

And i know that some (though not all) Theastic evolutionists who do believe this, they believe there was some type of historical Adam and Eve even though they believe that much of Genesis is intended to be an allegory.

The entire NT refers to the events in the Garden as literal, not just Jesus.  Theistic Evolution is a very sad joke.  Anyone claiming to be a theistic evolutionist might as well claim he is also an atheistic Christian.  Both are equally oxymoronic.

 

 

Your not making much sense.  How can you compare "theistic evolutionist" to something that is quite impossible.  A christian CAN'T be an atheist becaue to be a christian you have to believe that Jesus is the son of God (therefore a belief in God) and died on the cross for our sins.  However, a Christian can also believe that evolution is a process that God uses.

 

A theistic evolutionist is also not oxymoronic because the theory of evolution is not inherently atheistic.  After all, the theory does not go into how life first got on earth, and instead deals with already existing life.  And the theory also does not state that there is no God, and instead neither confirms nor denies one.

 

So yes a man can be a believe in God and the fact that he created the world, and believe that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of Man, and that Jesus is the son of God, and also believe in evolution....and *GASP* still be a christian.  After all his belief in evolution does not destroy/overwrite his belief in God and the fact that Jesus is Lord, so its not like he is losing his christianity for believing in evolution.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Mr. Nice Christian

[Guest]

 

Even if Jesus did refer to a literal Adam, doesn't necessarily mean that the entire creation story in Genesis is meant to be literal.

 

And i know that some (though not all) Theastic evolutionists who do believe this, they believe there was some type of historical Adam and Eve even though they believe that much of Genesis is intended to be an allegory.

 

The entire NT refers to the events in the Garden as literal, not just Jesus.  Theistic Evolution is a very sad joke.  Anyone claiming to be a theistic evolutionist might as well claim he is also an atheistic Christian.  Both are equally oxymoronic.

 

Your not making much sense.  How can you compare "theistic evolutionist" to something that is quite impossible.  A christian CAN'T be an atheist becaue to be a christian you have to believe that Jesus is the son of God (therefore a belief in God) and died on the cross for our sins.  However, a Christian can also believe that evolution is a process that God uses.

 

A theistic evolutionist is also not oxymoronic because the theory of evolution is not inherently atheistic.  After all, the theory does not go into how life first got on earth, and instead deals with already existing life.  And the theory also does not state that there is no God, and instead neither confirms nor denies one.

 

So yes a man can be a believe in God and the fact that he created the world, and believe that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of Man, and that Jesus is the son of God, and also believe in evolution....and *GASP* still be a christian.  After all his belief in evolution does not destroy/overwrite his belief in God and the fact that Jesus is Lord, so its not like he is losing his christianity for believing in evolution.

 

~

 

Does It Make Sense To Call An Evolutionist A Christian

 

Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands? Isaiah 45:9

 

When His Very Philosophy Denies The Creator Christ Of The Bible

 

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9

 

As He Bows Down Daily To Worship The Doctrines Of Men And Demons

 

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Genesis 3:1(a-c)

 

~

 

Are You Nice? Do You Have Compassion? Do You Really? Hum....

 

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Hebrews 11:1-3

 

Well Then Tell Them The Whole Truth

 

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:11

 

And Give To The LORD Jesus

 

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.  He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

 

He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:9-12

 

The Glory Glory

 

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3

[Guest]

Joe,

 

I have not mocked anything. Honestly i resent the implication that that is what I am doing. It's entirely possible to take seriously the words of Genesis 1, read them and understand them to be inspired, and either doubt the historical veracity of particular facts in it or not be sure. In the end I don't think it's that relevant. It's not going to change my belief in Jesus, it's not going to change my view about God's sovereignty. God created everything out of nothing, and if God wanted to he could take it out of existence with the merest thought. It doesn't change the moral and spiritual authority of these things in my life. There is no *mockery* there.

 

~

 

Dear One

Although It May Offend

The Truth About The LORD Jesus Is Always Relevant

 

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. John 1:1-3 (NASB)

 

And The Veracity Of His Physical Authority Is First Seen By Believers In Genesis

 

The LORD God formed the man from the soil of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. Genesis 2:7 (NET Bible)

 

Seen By Any Who Would See

 

You shall seek me, and find me, when you shall search for me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13 (WEB)

 

And Would Believe

 

By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible. Hebrews 11:3 (ESV)

 

And Although Those Pagan Philosophies

 

And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. Luke 16:15

 

Are Carefully Crafted To Mock And To Belittle Jesus

 

You have turned things around, as if the potter were the same as the clay. How can what is made say about its maker," He didn't make me"? How can what is formed say about the one who formed it," He doesn't understand what he's doing"? Isaiah 29:16 (HCSB)

 

His Holy Word Will Stand For All Time As The Testimony To His Power

 

Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. Luke 21:33 (KJV)

 

And To His Love

 

The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life. Job 33:4 (ESV)

 

~

 

Dear Brother Please Don't Toss

 

For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 1 Peter 1:23 (NIV)

 

Your Birthright Away

 

“As for me, I know that my Vindicator is alive; And he, the Last One will take his stand on the soil. Even after my skin has been destroyed, clothed in my flesh I will see God, whom I will see for myself. My own eyes will look at him — there won’t be anyone else for me! — He is the culmination of my innermost desire.” Job 19:25-27 (ISV)

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

 

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

 

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 (KJV)

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[enoob57]

a

 

 

 

Even if Jesus did refer to a literal Adam, doesn't necesarrly mean that the entire creation story in Genesis is meant to be literal.

 

And i know that some (though not all) Theastic evolutionists who do believe this, they believe there was some type of historical Adam and Eve even though they believe that much of Genesis is intended to be an allegory.

The entire NT refers to the events in the Garden as literal, not just Jesus.  Theistic Evolution is a very sad joke.  Anyone claiming to be a theistic evolutionist might as well claim he is also an atheistic Christian.  Both are equally oxymoronic.

 

 

Your not making much sense.  How can you compare "theistic evolutionist" to something that is quite impossible.  A christian CAN'T be an atheist becaue to be a christian you have to believe that Jesus is the son of God (therefore a belief in God) and died on the cross for our sins.  However, a Christian can also believe that evolution is a process that God uses.

 

A theistic evolutionist is also not oxymoronic because the theory of evolution is not inherently atheistic.  After all, the theory does not go into how life first got on earth, and instead deals with already existing life.  And the theory also does not state that there is no God, and instead neither confirms nor denies one.

 

So yes a man can be a believe in God and the fact that he created the world, and believe that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of Man, and that Jesus is the son of God, and also believe in evolution....and *GASP* still be a christian.  After all his belief in evolution does not destroy/overwrite his belief in God and the fact that Jesus is Lord, so its not like he is losing his christianity for believing in evolution.

 

 

Exactly right. That's what the opposing side here can't overcome, no matter how hard they try. Whether or not God created us through evolution is ultimately irrelevant to the major issue here: the death and resurrection of Jesus. I don't see why I should torment myself over precisely how God created us (as he could have done it in any way whatsoever) when it does not affect the gospel message or my standing with God. It doesn't affect my ability to read the bible and be guided. It in fact has no primarily important impact that I can see either way.

 

What evolution is and what God's Word 'IS' are two entirely different matters... Authority is the actual dilemma in this reasoning! Shiloh and I both believe  

God's Word 'IS' ultimate authority and should be treated as such.... evolution was born of man's intellect! It does not matter to you that before sin was we

were not and being born of sin in a world of sin is also the spawn of man's intellect. Common sense would naturally deliver concern when God Himself

delivers the definition of His Creation Period

Ex 20:8-11

8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,

10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor

your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor

your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth,

the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath

day and hallowed it.
NKJV

but also to maintain your own intellectual prowess you will have to ignore this  (above) that God Has Said...

Which ultimately reveals what spirit this theistic evolutionary concept spawns from- man and not God!

Satan knows that if the foundation can be removed then the building cannot be built...

1 Cor 3:10-12
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the

foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other

foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
NKJV

This foundation 'IS' etched in the very beginning of the creation act

John 1:1-4

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was

in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made

that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men
NKJV

I would be careful about twisting the Scriptures... for God warns us specific

2 Peter 3:16
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to

understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the

rest of the Scriptures. NKJV

Love, Steven

 

 

 

[ByFaithAlone]

 

 

Even if Jesus did refer to a literal Adam, doesn't necesarrly mean that the entire creation story in Genesis is meant to be literal.

 

And i know that some (though not all) Theastic evolutionists who do believe this, they believe there was some type of historical Adam and Eve even though they believe that much of Genesis is intended to be an allegory.

The entire NT refers to the events in the Garden as literal, not just Jesus.  Theistic Evolution is a very sad joke.  Anyone claiming to be a theistic evolutionist might as well claim he is also an atheistic Christian.  Both are equally oxymoronic.

 

 

Your not making much sense.  How can you compare "theistic evolutionist" to something that is quite impossible.  A christian CAN'T be an atheist becaue to be a christian you have to believe that Jesus is the son of God (therefore a belief in God) and died on the cross for our sins.  However, a Christian can also believe that evolution is a process that God uses.

 

A theistic evolutionist is also not oxymoronic because the theory of evolution is not inherently atheistic.  After all, the theory does not go into how life first got on earth, and instead deals with already existing life.  And the theory also does not state that there is no God, and instead neither confirms nor denies one.

 

So yes a man can be a believe in God and the fact that he created the world, and believe that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of Man, and that Jesus is the son of God, and also believe in evolution....and *GASP* still be a christian.  After all his belief in evolution does not destroy/overwrite his belief in God and the fact that Jesus is Lord, so its not like he is losing his christianity for believing in evolution.

 

 

You hit the nail on the head here. Evolution is science, not intrinsically atheistic or theistic. Science in general is not intrinsically attached to one particular religious mindset. It makes as much sense for someone to call the theory of evolution atheistic as to call Newton's theory of universal gravitation atheistic. Thank you for making this point.  

[Guest shiloh357]

Your not making much sense.  How can you compare "theistic evolutionist" to something that is quite impossible.  A christian CAN'T be an atheist becaue to be a christian you have to believe that Jesus is the son of God (therefore a belief in God) and died on the cross for our sins.  However, a Christian can also believe that evolution is a process that God uses.

My point is that theistic evolution is as internally inconsistent as atheistic Christianity because the Theory of Evolution is rooted in both a philosophical and methodoligical naturalism that is opposed to any intellgent causality for life as we know it. So to create a version of evolution that denies the heart of the theory and then adopt a view of the Bible that denies its divine origin in order to create a hybrid system called "theistic evolution" is to adopt a system that is neither evolutionary nor theistic, in reality.

 

 

 

 

A theistic evolutionist is also not oxymoronic because the theory of evolution is not inherently atheistic.  After all, the theory does not go into how life first got on earth, and instead deals with already existing life.  And the theory also does not state that there is no God, and instead neither confirms nor denies one.

Actually, The Theory of Evolution (ToE) is one of the biggest enablers for atheisma and even noted atheists like Dawkins admit that.  We have had numerous atheists post on this board that it was the theory of Evolution that contributed the most to their becoming atheists and abandoning their belief in God.

 

 

 

So yes a man can be a believe in God and the fact that he created the world, and believe that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of Man, and that Jesus is the son of God, and also believe in evolution....and *GASP* still be a christian.  After all his belief in evolution does not destroy/overwrite his belief in God and the fact that Jesus is Lord, so its not like he is losing his christianity for believing in evolution.

The mind of man can justify anything.  Evolution is simply not in sync with a Christian worldview but the imagination of man can fit square pegs in round holes.  It is a practice in futility, though.

 

But the one of the chief problems with the ToE is that it doens't look like God, it doesn't behave like and God. The ToE runs in direct contradiction to Bible's depcition of an all-knowing, all-powerful God who creates perfectly.  Most Christians who naively accept evolution haven't really studied out why evolution simply won't jive with a biblical worldview.

 

Furthermore, you cannot divorce Genesis from Jesus.  Many people try to defend having a view of Genesis that plays down the actual text of Genesis while trying to say that it doesn't matter what you believe about Genesis as long as you believe the "right" things about Jesus and still maintain a healthy biblical worldview. It is inernally inconsistent to selectively deny the irrancy of the parts of the Bible you don't to accept as written, but then hold fiercely to the parts you like.  Either the Bible is wholly true or it isn't trustworthy at all.   Genesis establishes Jesus as our Sovereign Creator, Righteous Redeemer and Eternal Judge.   An evolutionary worldview has no such concepts.  Evolution simply doesn't jive with Genesis or the rest of the Bible from a proper Chrsitian worldview.

 

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

 

Even if Jesus did refer to a literal Adam, doesn't necesarrly mean that the entire creation story in Genesis is meant to be literal.

 

And i know that some (though not all) Theastic evolutionists who do believe this, they believe there was some type of historical Adam and Eve even though they believe that much of Genesis is intended to be an allegory.

The entire NT refers to the events in the Garden as literal, not just Jesus.  Theistic Evolution is a very sad joke.  Anyone claiming to be a theistic evolutionist might as well claim he is also an atheistic Christian.  Both are equally oxymoronic.

 

 

Your not making much sense.  How can you compare "theistic evolutionist" to something that is quite impossible.  A christian CAN'T be an atheist becaue to be a christian you have to believe that Jesus is the son of God (therefore a belief in God) and died on the cross for our sins.  However, a Christian can also believe that evolution is a process that God uses.

 

A theistic evolutionist is also not oxymoronic because the theory of evolution is not inherently atheistic.  After all, the theory does not go into how life first got on earth, and instead deals with already existing life.  And the theory also does not state that there is no God, and instead neither confirms nor denies one.

 

So yes a man can be a believe in God and the fact that he created the world, and believe that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of Man, and that Jesus is the son of God, and also believe in evolution....and *GASP* still be a christian.  After all his belief in evolution does not destroy/overwrite his belief in God and the fact that Jesus is Lord, so its not like he is losing his christianity for believing in evolution.

 

 

You hit the nail on the head here. Evolution is science, not intrinsically atheistic or theistic. Science in general is not intrinsically attached to one particular religious mindset. It makes as much sense for someone to call the theory of evolution atheistic as to call Newton's theory of universal gravitation atheistic. Thank you for making this point.  

 

You are wrong on all counts.  Furthermore, you cannot comparre the theory of gravity with the ToE beacause the theory of gravity is not connected to any particular worldview whereas the ToE is diametrically opposed to a biblical worldview where, for instance, man is represented as a special creation of God and was created separate from the rest of the created order and was created in His image.  The ToE denies any spiritual or other intelligent causality and relies solely on natural selection.  The theory of gravity is not at all similar.

[Mr. Nice Christian]

 

 

 

 

 

A theistic evolutionist is also not oxymoronic because the theory of evolution is not inherently atheistic.  After all, the theory does not go into how life first got on earth, and instead deals with already existing life.  And the theory also does not state that there is no God, and instead neither confirms nor denies one.

Actually, The Theory of Evolution (ToE) is one of the biggest enablers for atheisma and even noted atheists like Dawkins admit that.  We have had numerous atheists post on this board that it was the theory of Evolution that contributed the most to their becoming atheists and abandoning their belief in God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes many atheists do believe in evolution and use it to support their belief of a lack of a God.  That does not make evolution itself inherently athestic.  Also although unfortunately some have abandoned God to believe in evolution, there have been others who were believers of God, then decided to accept evolution, without destroying their faith in God.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

Exactly right. That's what the opposing side here can't overcome, no matter how hard they try. Whether or not God created us through evolution is ultimately irrelevant to the major issue here: the death and resurrection of Jesus. I don't see why I should torment myself over precisely how God created us (as he could have done it in any way whatsoever) when it does not affect the gospel message or my standing with God. It doesn't affect my ability to read the bible and be guided. It in fact has no primarily important impact that I can see either way.

 

That is exactly wrong.

 

Genesis is directly relevant to the death and resurrection of Jesus.   Why? Because Genesis 1-3 establishes Jesus' authority as our Creator, our Redeemer and our Judge.  Jesus, according to Colossians chapter 1 created the world, and the entire universe.   John 1:1-3 makes the same claim.  Jesus is tied directly to the fall of man in Romans 5:12-21 which makes Jesus directly relevant to Genesis in terms of our redemption from sin.

 

It matters because Evolution in theory is an a wholly naturalistic theory both in terms of a worldview and in terms of the method/process.  It is inherently absent of any intelligent force or impulse. 

 

The theory of Evolution is naturalistic. Creation is supernatural.   The ToE is impersonal, unguided and unplanned.   Creation is the product of a personal God, who planned guided and sustains the universe.  The two could not be more opposite and only ONE of them works within the framework of a biblical worldview.  Only one presents mankind with hope and reason for being here. 

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

 

 

 

 

A theistic evolutionist is also not oxymoronic because the theory of evolution is not inherently atheistic.  After all, the theory does not go into how life first got on earth, and instead deals with already existing life.  And the theory also does not state that there is no God, and instead neither confirms nor denies one.

Actually, The Theory of Evolution (ToE) is one of the biggest enablers for atheisma and even noted atheists like Dawkins admit that.  We have had numerous atheists post on this board that it was the theory of Evolution that contributed the most to their becoming atheists and abandoning their belief in God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes many atheists do believe in evolution and use it to support their belief of a lack of a God.  That does not make evolution itself inherently athestic.  Also although unfortunately some have abandoned God to believe in evolution, there have been others who were believers of God, then decided to accept evolution, without destroying their faith in God.

 

The Toe is very atheistic in that the theory precludes a belief in God.  It is a wholly naturalistic theory that denies any divine, spiritual or otherwise intelligent impetus.  That makes the theory inherently atheistic to anyone willing to be honest about the core claims of theory.

 

Why would a genuine Christian want to believe in a theory or possess a worldview that enables people to adopt atheism?  Why introduce that kind of poison into your walk with the Lord?