UndecidedFrog Posted December 25, 2004 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,063 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/02/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 25, 2004 Dear nebula, This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian. Thanks for your response. Sorry if I misread you. I guess I will now have to redesign my experiment. Happy holidays. Regards, UndecidedFrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sola Scriptora Posted December 25, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 155 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/23/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 25, 2004 Frog: I have seen and admired the WTC as it was being built. I have never met the builder. There is objective validatable evidence that there was a builder, there are contracts between owner and architect and builder that can be reviewed. There are interviews that have been recorded with the various builders, workmen, architects, etc. There are birth certificates that provide evidence that any particular person involved with the building of the WTC was born. I could go on and on, but I think you get my drift. I get your drift. You BELIEVE all these things, having seen none of them. The drift here is--THE BUILDING is evidence that there was a BUILDER. Creation is evidence for a Creator. That this universe, our planet and our very bodies were all intelligently designed no honest person can deny. Therefore there is a Designer. On the same rational, honest basis that one can look at a building an conclude THERE MUST HAVE BEEN a builder, someone can look all around us, and even inside us and conclude there MUST HAVE BEEN a Creator. As for your brain, I'm sure you BELIEVED you had one before you ever saw it. There was evidence for its existence, wasn't there? Or was the MRI becasue you weren't sure . Anyway God bless you in Jesus Mighty Name, and enjoy this Day, the Day that is the cause of the most beautiful songs ever written--all about our Lord Jesus Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UndecidedFrog Posted December 25, 2004 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,063 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/02/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 25, 2004 Dear Sola Scriptora, This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian. Thank you for your response. You BELIEVE all these things, having seen none of them. The drift here is--THE BUILDING is evidence that there was a BUILDER. Creation is evidence for a Creator. That this universe, our planet and our very bodies were all intelligently designed no honest person can deny. Therefore there is a Designer. On the same rational, honest basis that one can look at a building an conclude THERE MUST HAVE BEEN a builder, someone can look all around us, and even inside us and conclude there MUST HAVE BEEN a Creator I do not believe all these things. If it was worth my while, I could research the evidence to support these things. I can review objective evidence from different sources to confirm (or deny) certain aspects of the WTC architects, builders, etc. I do not agree to your supposition that the world/universe is a creation, hence requiring any creator(s). You have not shown any evidence to support that supposition. Our bodies, our earth, IMO is not very intelligently designed. If so, we would not know about certain diseases that destroy our bodies, and our crops. We would not know about "natural" disasters such as tsunamis, earthquakes, floods, etc. Of course, one can state that these things are known because of some deity's unknown will. However, I choose not to accept that given that there is no evidence to support the existence of any deity, or of his/her/it's unknown will. Further, I do not agree with you that everything has to have a creator. As for your brain, I'm sure you BELIEVED you had one before you ever saw it. There was evidence for its existence, wasn't there? Or was the MRI becasue you weren't sure Before I believed I had a brain, I saw brains of humans and other mammals. I read about different accounts of experiments performed on humans and their brains. Would you believe in the invisible pink unicorn that lives in my garage before reviewing the evidence to support such a thing? Regards, UndecidedFrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slippery Slope Posted December 25, 2004 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/19/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/24/1965 Share Posted December 25, 2004 Slope, That was me that asked him if he was led there or had gone on his own. See Slope you speak of things you know not. This latest post of yours is yet another effort to deny the very Word of God. That is your choice.  Even so you do have Free will. God Bless you. What do you expect to find here? Since our view is so singular? What do you hope to accomplish here? Are you really seeking Truth? I would refer you to Jude 1 especially; Jude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sola Scriptora Posted December 25, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 155 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/23/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 25, 2004 Our bodies, our earth, IMO is not very intelligently designed. If so, we would not know about certain diseases that destroy our bodies, and our crops. We would not know about "natural" disasters such as tsunamis, earthquakes, floods, etc. Of course, one can state that these things are known because of some deity's unknown will. No, that is unscientific. Scientists marvel at our world and human beings. Your problem may simply be an explanation as to WHY these things happen. The Holy Bible tells us why our world is no longer a paradise--sin, and it also tells us the Lord will restore the earth to paradise state again, once the present age accomplishes His purpose and He closes it suddenly. So Frog, you must look at your premises and be open. Don't be hard-headed, in case you're wrong and stand before the Livivng God one Day, and be found to be rebellious and wilfully ignorant of Him and His claims upon you. Here is an article that can elaborate more. I am busy today, of course. God bless you in Jesus Precious Name: -------------------------------------------------------- by Ken Ham In our everyday experience, just about everything seems to have a beginning. In fact, the laws of science show that even things which look the same through our lifetime, like the sun and other stars, are running down. The sun is using up its fuel at millions of tonnes each second Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UndecidedFrog Posted December 26, 2004 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,063 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/02/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 26, 2004 Dear Sola Scriptora, This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian. Thank you for your long response. Your problem may simply be an explanation as to WHY these things happen. Actually, I do not have a problem. Remember, I do not buy into this Intelligent Design argument of your's. I do not need to explain WHY anything bad happens in the "design" of the universe. Only people who believe in Intelligent Design need to explain that. So Frog, you must look at your premises and be open. Don't be hard-headed, in case you're wrong and stand before the Livivng God one Day, and be found to be rebellious and wilfully ignorant of Him and His claims upon you. I am always open to evidence. I, unlike some others, are always open to the possibility that I may be wrong. You will find some believers who are not open to that same possibility in their case. I am far from being hard-headed, but I will always be rational. If there is a god, and he does wish for me to know him, and he has the power to make himself known to me, then I await that experience. No amount of your bullying (by quoting biblical references) will convince me. Thank you for the Ham article. These articles, and their counterparts arguing the reverse are entertaining enough, but have no bearing on the evidence that has been presented to me. It matters not what some alleged scientists say out of context, or how the author tries to argue his opinion. I still await the evidence. Happy Holidays, UndecidedFrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted December 26, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 26, 2004 Have fun...here's your evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sola Scriptora Posted December 26, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 155 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/23/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 26, 2004 Frog: No one is "bullying" you. If what I am saying is true, all I am doing is WARNING you, as someone who actually cares for the fate of another would. Granted, its a big "if" to you, but at least see that I am being consistent and obedient to the Lord. As for God revealing Himself to you, I suggest you obey the Bible, which teaches us to humbles ourselves and COME TO HIM. Jesus Christ the Lord said that if you come to Him, He will not cast you away. He bids you come. He is the lover of your soul, and gave His life for you. God has already come to earth, shared in our sufferings, and died for our sins that we might have ife eternal. He has done MORE THAN ENOUGH for us wicked, selfish, sinful human beings. Now you must come to Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UndecidedFrog Posted December 26, 2004 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,063 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/02/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 26, 2004 Dear Sola Scriptora, This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian. Thank you for your long response. As for God revealing Himself to you, I suggest you obey the Bible, which teaches us to humbles ourselves and COME TO HIM You are arguing again for me to have faith. I cannot. I require evidence that your god is the only god, and that he exists before I go anywhere (religiously speaking). Regards, UndecidedFrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UndecidedFrog Posted December 26, 2004 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,063 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/02/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 26, 2004 Dear Super Jew, This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian. Thank you for your link to alleged evidence. I have read it, and researched the organization that sponsors this alleged evidence. I have concluded that the organization is not a scientific one, but one that has a political and religious agenda. I cannot give credence to any findings by such an organization. If you wish to see what I found, please let me know so I can PM you the website (I don't think I am allowed to openly post contradictorary website on this board). Regards, UndecidedFrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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