Can you answer this question?

[Guest tanner]

Someone a little while back had reffered back to the old testament referring to this scripture

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Notice his name is The mighty God, The everlasting Father.....

Which brings me back to this

Luke 24:47 - And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem

John 1:12 - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name

John 3:18 - He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God

John 5:43 - I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

John 10:25 - Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

John 17:6 - I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word

John 17:11 - And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are

John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled

John 17:26 - And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

John 20:31 - But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 2:21 - And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved

Acts 2:38 - Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 3:16 - And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

Acts 4:12 - Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved

Acts 4:30 - By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus

Acts 5:28 - Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.

Acts 8:12 - But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Acts 8:16 - (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Acts 9:15 - But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Acts 9:21 - But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?

Acts 9:27 - But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.

Acts 9:29 - And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him.

Acts 10:43 - To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Acts 10:48 - And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days

Acts 15:17 - That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Acts 16:18 - And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour

Acts 19:5 - When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 19:17 - And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified

Acts 21:13 - Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus

Acts 22:16 - And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Romans 9:17 - For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

There are many names which God has been called, but there is only one name that he has declared to be above every name.

[Guest Jacee]

Tanner

I believe you were referring to my post. Now, in the OT the name was not yet given but there were actually those who were saved by looking unto the sacrifice that God set up. The innocent lamb for the guilty. The High Priest went into the Holy of Holies once a year to present this blood for the sins of the people. Now, we know by the word that Jesus is the name that was preached to those who were in captivity and were brought out by Him. Praise His name! And there is reference that those of Israel who crossed the sea of separation from Egypt also were saved by this crossing through the waters. But, what is the power that gives us the salvation? It is faith in believing what God says to do. We cannot have salvation without all these things working together. Gods word; our faith; and the results perfomed.

The act of baptism saves by the name in this manner. We are baptized into a person. The Lord Jesus Christ. It is the act of being placed into another which is a supernatural act by Father. Not the ritual performed but the supernatural act of Holy Spirit. He leads us to the truth of what was done in us when we do not see it. And we don't all see the truth of what was done right away. But, it's a done deal whether it is "done correctly" or not. For it's our believing He is faithful to perform what He said He would do. The ultimate example of that is the thief on the cross who only believed the words of Jesus. Jesus saw his heart. And that day he was in paradise with Jesus. Why do we let these things separate us? I say it's the work of the enemy to keep All His bones out of Joint. For how can His body move when this is the state of the church??????

Look at Psalms Psa 22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

We are bone of His bone. But, we are crippling His moving in His people to save the world. Can you see Him crying to us??? We are of Him, yet we are arguing about how we are put together in Him. Why????

Edited January 28, 2005 by Jacee

[Guest tanner]

Tanner

I believe you were referring to my post.  Now, in the OT the name was not yet given but there were actually those who were saved by looking unto the sacrifice that God set up.  The innocent lamb for the guilty.  The High Priest went into the Holy of Holies once a year to present this blood for the sins of the people.  Now, we know by the word that Jesus is the name that was preached to those who were in captivity and were brought out by Him.  Praise His name!  And  there is reference that those of Israel who crossed the sea of separation from Egypt also were saved by this crossing through the waters.  But, what is the power that gives us the salvation?  It is faith in believing what God says to do.  We cannot have salvation without all these things working together.  Gods word; our faith; and the results perfomed. 

The act of baptism saves by the name in this manner.  We are baptized into a person.  The Lord Jesus Christ.  It is the act of being placed into another which is a supernatural act by Father.  Not the ritual performed but the supernatural act of Holy Spirit.  He leads us to the truth of what was done in us when we do not see it.  And we don't all see the truth of what was done right away.  But, it's a done deal whether it is "done correctly" or not.  For it's our believing He is faithful to perform what He said He would do.  The ultimate example of that is the thief on the cross who only believed the words of Jesus.  Jesus saw his heart.  And that day he was in paradise with Jesus.  Why do we let these things separate us?  I say it's the work of the enemy to keep All His bones out of Joint.  For how can His body move when this is the state of the  church?????? 

Look at Psalms Psa 22:14  I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

We are bone of His bone.  But, we are crippling His moving in His people to save the world.  Can you see Him crying to us???  We are of Him, yet we are arguing about how we are put together in Him.  Why????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So why do we bother to be baptism or do any other thing that God commanded us to do.

He said go forth into all nations and that we should believe and be baptized not only with water, but also the Spirit. The word itself explains exactly how and exactly why we are to be baptized in water in the name of Jesus Christ and exactly how and exactly why we are to be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

The gentiles have made the truth of none effect by traditions that we have made up just as the Jewish people had done by the time the Lord came into the world.

The word says that we are to be baptized into that name and we are to recieve the Holy Ghost because it is through baptism in the name we are crucified to him and recieve remission of sins and it is through the baptism of the Spirit that we are regenerated and keep ourselves from sin by his power working within us. The word itself says if we have not the Spirit we are not his and the word says that if we have that Spirit within us then he will raise us up at that day.

The word also says that we do know everything because the Spirit within us teaches us everything that is of God. We are not kept in darkness, allthough the world does sleep in the darkness.

[Guest Jacee]

Tanner

You really need to reread my post. But, will reemphasize here. Truthseekers will see the truth. Truthseekers are those who "in the presence of the Lord" study to know Him.

I said my baptism was sprinkling. My heart attitude was what caused me to be baptized in that sprinkling because it was as rain. That is scriptural too. The latter rain which I believe is what I experienced. But, as I searched His word, I saw who we are baptized into which caused a desire in me to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. I saw it was His name that was said by those who baptized. This was at a time of not knowing anything about oneness teaching. And I saw that immersion was what was done. So in my heart search for truth, the Lord gave me that truth.

My issue with this truth being taught as the basis for entrance into heaven is what I am confronting. Salvation is a continual thing for us as we seek Him. Entrance into His presence is not. Salvation as the scripture says is of our soul. Our spirit is what is lifed initially and that was the state of the thief on the cross. His spirit was lifed by the word of Jesus on the cross. Thus he was given entrance into heaven by the word of truth of Jesus. I was saved when I was sprinkled because I called on Him for salvation with repentance. Denial of the 3 part person of our humanness is what keeps us in the dark as far as seeing this. And the trinity or the 3 outflowings of God and denying it, which are the same in everyway, yet separate workings, will keep us from seeing this too.

Religion, a religious spirit, says what you must do, apart from HIM. Religion is what I am warring against with my words hopefully. It is Jesus Christ, a person, that we are baptized into. And then He will guide us into all truth. The UPC in knowing oneness and baptism into Him is a great truth. But, has melted into a religious spirit which turns and batters His own with bondage, rather than freedom. This is not just one denomination but all that has slipped into the lie that they have the truth, and others do not. And those who have barred His spirit from entering the church. How do they do this? If a denomination denys the wonderful Holy Spirit baptism, then they have slipped into religion. The Catholic church had an awakening back in the '60's and it continues but on a lesser scale today. But the protesant churches attacked this movement of God and called it satanic. The same with Pentecostalism. Churches that did not move on with the Lord from blood baptism, to Spirit, attack those that do. This is a great dishonor to our head. We need to allow the Lord to wash us from religiousness. And to see it with His eyes. He, Himself, confronted religiousness, and it turned and crucified Him. But, His crucifixion was for our salvation. He is requiring the same thing for His body. Will we be crucified to our flesh? And allow Him to come forth??? Our flesh can also include our beliefs when it is held so fiercely by us that it attacks others who do not see it our way. Flesh- the human nature with all it frailties, both physical, and moral.

I apologize if it seems that I am attacking your faith. I am not. And I pray that you see that. I seek only to lift up the one that you proclaim and that I proclaim as the only one under heaven that we can call on, to be saved from this realm. This world, the world spirit, satan, and our own weakness, our humanity. He is the only way out. And it is not just His name Jesus. Many have that name. It is His divinity, or the character and the fact that God Himself, Father God, placed His name, His character, His own being, into this one we call Jesus, the anointed son of God.

God help us! God help us! God help us!!!!!

[Guest Jacee]

Also, just an addon here. You said that the jews were of the same fruitless traditions of man. I challenge you to study the feasts. Just a hint of truth though before you do, if you take up the challenge. They are the feasts of the Lord, not the jews.

[Sola Scriptora]

I'm sorry my UPC friends, but your arguments and reactions to my posts are ridiculous. I am not being deceitful, nor engaging in strawman argumentation. You are simply bound by that circular reasoning you were taught at UPC churches. And round and round we go! It is amazing to watch people simply refuse logic or honesty when it is pointed out that CONTEXTUALLY, their PRIVATE INTERPRETATION of a phrase is false. It is sad to see people REBEL against the light that is shown to them simply because they come to the Scriptures with an a priori assumption.

I gave you two longer posts that exegetically EXPLAINED our position. None of you have tried to interact with those posts. I say because you cannot. Evidence was provided PROVING Peter was speaking FIGURATIVELY about baptism saving us, just as he said the WATERS SAVED NOAH. The whole REASON Peter brought up baptism was BECAUSE he just mentioned the flood waters in Noah's time and then said, (since Baptism involves water!!)--he said we can view baptism as saving us in a like "figure". Then he goes further to state that baptism DOES NOT WASH AWAY MORAL FILTH, but it is an act that is an answer of an already good conscience to God.

Peter WAS SPEAKING FIGURATIVELY, and used the word "figure" RIGHT THERE IN THE CONTEXT!!! HE SAID THAT IN RELAYING BAPTISM TO THE EXPERIENCE OF NOAH, WE ARE "SAVED" IN A LIKE FIGURE. It is OBVIOUS that he was using the word "saves" in a figurative manner. Peter SAID HE WAS RIGHT THERE!

You are in denial, plain and simple, then you turn and attack me. I BELIEVE WHAT PETER SAID, you don't. You TWIST what he said, that much is very obvious.

If you believe baptism saves--FINE. Just ADMIT that you don't find that teaching in 1Peter 3:19-21. Just concede that point and prove your doctrine elsewhere. What's wrong with that? What wrong with HONESTY boys and girls???

Edited January 29, 2005 by Sola Scriptora

[Guest hubertdorm]

Esiais says 1Peter 3:21 teaches that baptism "saves us".  Now is that what Peter said?  Or was that twisting what peter said?

1 Peter 3:20-21 In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also

[Sola Scriptora]

I don't know what perversion you are qouting, but lets stick withthe KJV, shall we? It says Noah was saved by the waters of the flood. Period. In a "sense" he was. Those waters symbolized his death to the world, and the world was dead to him. In the same way, baptism "saves" us. it symbolizes our death to this world, and us being dead to the world. I am afraid that English was my best subject at school there Hubert, and you need to know that no amount out out-of-context twisting of those three verses by you can ever change what is truly says, by rules of grammar, analogy, and the over-all Scirptureal context. You can believe that baptism washes yoursins away, but we know its the blood of Christ that washes our sins away the moment we believe and confess Christ.

[Guest Jacee]

Well, I see that no one has addressed my posts; am often overlooked because I am short.

So am now standing up as tall as I can to reiterate a truth that I know is the truth so help me God. lol

We are saved by being baptized into another. Water is the means by which God has set up this happening to be shown to us what has already been done in the heart. Hence Noah saved by water by being in the ark. Moses and the Israelites being saved by water for the egyptians were drowned; a picture of our sin and being saved out of it and led into the wilderness that they could cast off the works of darkness of those who dd not believe and their acts showed it; and those who did entered in. Is it not what we are taught in the word? We are as the children of God in the wilderness experience before we enter the promised land??? I heard that and was not a UPC church. We are grafted into another. The vine. A picture again of truth. So is the picture truth??? yes. but the truth is looking back on a happening of the heart.

[Guest bluerunner]

Many Evangelical churches teach that while water baptism does not save, it is a testimony to salvation. My question is... where in Scripture does it say "SPECIFICALLY" that water baptism is a testimony to salvation?

THE BEREAN NOTEPAD

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is a good question. The answer is it doesnt. The theology of baptistm being a testimony to ones salvation is inferred from several Scriptures. One must remember that that is not all baptism is, but it is certainly a testimony to ones faith. Some passages from which one can infer baptism is a testimony to salvation.

Romans 6:4, Col 2:12 and 1 Peter 3:4. If one has a problem with baptism being inferred from Scripture then one will have a problem with other points of theology like the doctrine of the rapture, the doctrine of the trinity, the doctrine of the ominpotence of God....and on and on.