apothanein kerdos Posted December 27, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 27, 2005 First, we cannot be saved by simply obeying it. We have all fallen short in one aspect or another, if only by accident, and we need a savior Christ Jesus. That does not mean we are free to break God's laws. Read all of the things Paul said in Corinthians that will exclude us from inheritance in the Kingdom of God. Secondly, Paul came against the need to follow all the laws that only showed Israel's separation from the unclean gentiles. That is because we have been made clean through Jesus, so to continue to follow these laws makes an outward show that the gentile nations are unclean. You obviously don't understand Paul very well. Paul came against the following the Torah, specifically the act of circumcision as a means of procuring salvation. As for the Torah. ALL of the Torah showed Israel's separation from the Gentiles. The Torah is not a smorgasbord from which you can pick and choose what you want to keep. If you are going to forbid Tatoos and ignore the practical reasons God gave for the tatoos, then you should also separate from your wife from the week following her menstrual period and sleep in separate rooms. You should make sure that you don't wear any clothing that was made from both linen and wool (sha'anetz). In addition, you should also make sure that your meat has NO blood in it, and that it does not come from any of forbidden animals in Lev 11 or Deut. 14. The prohibition on getting a tatoo applied to not imitating the pagan priests who would imprint themselves with images of their gods. It is not the act of getting a tatoo that was at issue, but what the tatoo would be. God did not want the children of Israel creating tatoos representing Him, and imprinting them upon the Levitical priests. To take it beyond that is just absurd. It is certainly absurd to make it a salvation issue. Legalism has no place on Worthy Boards. Here you go Burt. Have at it mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted December 28, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 28, 2005 As I stated, you didn't put forth an adequate reply. YOu merely repeated yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted December 28, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 28, 2005 As I stated, you didn't put forth an adequate reply. YOu merely repeated yourself. And what exactly would you like cleared up? I gave a very thorough rebutal to everything you said. Shiloh explained, biblically, why you can't pick and choose with the Torah. All you did was repeat, almost word for word, what you had said prior to it. That's not even a reply. You can't clear up a repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkest_red Posted December 28, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 885 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 55 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/05/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/23/1986 Share Posted December 28, 2005 If you look at the sex tattoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillingToDie Posted December 29, 2005 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 710 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/16/1984 Share Posted December 29, 2005 (edited) Well Arsonist, I guess we will just have to disagree on that. maybe so, but the wording seems (to me, at least) to imply that it was meant to separate the Israelites from the Gentiles By the way, I know this is off subject but I was just curious about your user name? I had tried to see if anyone had asked you about that before but never saw any post about it. Well, it's like this: My first email address was marshmallow_arsonist, which my (then) girlfriend came up with. From there, I started posting on a gaming board known as Gamefaqs, and when it came to coming up with e SN, I wanted to use marshmallow_arsonist, but there was a limit to how many characters I could have, so I shortened it to "mm_arsonist". From there, I just got lazy, and as I joined more forums, I just shortened it to "arsonist" Want to change it, it's lost it's significance to me. Any ideas? Moving on... As I don't want to repeat myself, if you have not read the whole thread then you will not completely understand my position as I have laid out many verses that back my position. I have read the whole thread, and the verses that your entire argument are based on have been, as far as I can see, shown to not support your argument. First of all are you a believer? yup so my question to you, arsonist, is where does God tell us to think up new ways of honoring Him. I'm not quite clear on what you're asking here. Although I will give some thought to the question. But, again, I ask you, do you like the pretty box you have made for God? If this is not a duck then I don't know what is. it may be a duck, or it could simply be that I didn't feel that Serenity's posts needed to be repeated, as you could go back and reference them. Can you tell I do not regard Serenity's answers highly? (I hold nothing against Serenity personally I just think her doctrine is way out in left field.) What an easy way to discount a perfectly reasonable response. I do not hold the fact that you have tattoos against you either. I don't have any tattoos, nor do I have any immediate plans to get any. Although I appreciate the sentiment. Wow Larry, you're way off. Gnostics beleived that the material world was very much real, so real that to indulge in it was to be evil. This lead to the belief taht anything done to gratify the flesh (eat great food, buy nice clothes, listen to music, etc) was wrong and sinful. They believed that the material world was real...they simply rejected it and believed they had to push themselves above it...towards spiritual things and away from the flesh I would also like to add that (I believe) the heart of the Gnostic heresy is that since flesh/physicality is inherently sinful, Christ could not have been human/of flesh There will be more people turned off to a person with a tattoo of a cross or WWJD or whatever than will be drawn to God through it How do you know this? And wouldn't it be worth it to alienate 100 Christians and help 1 non-believer than to satisfy other Christians, but not save that soul? I just don't believe their church is doctinally sound. Hey, we agree! (kinda) In fact, I believe that when we meet the Lord he will most likely let us know that we were all "off" in our understanding in one area or another Indeed People that preach the anti-legalism doctrine say Jesus broke the law who says that? In fact, I think it could make a very good starting point...I know more people who would be happy to start a conversation about a tattoo which could then become a testimonial than a straight out testimonial. my thoughts exactly -edit-hmmm, wonder why quote boxes aren't working. Too many quotes, maybe? Well, to make it easier to read, I'll bold quotes. Edited December 29, 2005 by arsonist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkest_red Posted December 30, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 885 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 55 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/05/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/23/1986 Share Posted December 30, 2005 If you look at the sex tattoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarletprayers Posted December 30, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 135 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,537 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 157 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/06/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/29/1956 Share Posted December 30, 2005 [quote I wasn't saying nobody likes or appreciates tattoos. I just believe there are many people turned off to those that have them. I do not like them and seeing a believer with one would make me less likely to accept them if they were to witness Christ to me. I know many people that feel the same way. Some people, (not me) even go so far as to think a tattoo is the mark of the beast. It just depends on what circles you travel in. We are not to judge by outward apperances but by the fruit of the persons life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yomotalking Posted December 30, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 154 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,838 Content Per Day: 0.40 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/29/1991 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Good one SP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ManicSmiley Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 I wasn't saying nobody likes or appreciates tattoos. I just believe there are many people turned off to those that have them. I do not like them and seeing a believer with one would make me less likely to accept them if they were to witness Christ to me. I know many people that feel the same way. Some people, (not me) even go so far as to think a tattoo is the mark of the beast. It just depends on what circles you travel in. i just like tattoo are form of art and expersing one self.Not the mark of the beast.I plan get one,nothing no short of god that well stop,w/o holding me angaist my will.Mine is show something,what that is between me and god.I see nothing wrong with tattoo.Really like no why they are looked at with what i call fear.That i say people do,they say look down think there afaid.That me,and when im 18 it be with tattoo,or if mom lets me 16.Wont ever reget this ,no way short of god that will stop me.I like my tattoo i draw on my head and arm all time in ink,ive drew in perment marker were stayed there for days.They are beatiful,they and ppl that get them should be looked down on.I really like no why they are. Mine is heart in middle,sword or arrow through middle,tears instead of blood,and 4 words,cant make up last 2,no i want love and life on their.Think 4 look alot better then 4,then have one in each conner.I wont be change,this isnt relbien.This show me,ive want this since i was little.This is dream and something ive want since i was little.People say that want be this and that when got older when they were little,me i said i want my tattoo.Went through few mods over years,basics of stayed the same.Cant wait till get it.If any think of any word that relate good to life and love please tell me. I was linked this topic through another,this my view on this,read 15 of post,from were got linked. I love my tattoo design,this show something i like and want too.For some reason dont.That why i want,that why im getting.Be only one i get .That one i wont ever forget why got it or reget it.If i do its because i stop belivin in why i got which i belive is good thing.If i could tell why i want chose i would.I know if u knew me my whole life,and reason why ,that u wouldnt stop me from get it. That all i have to say,Peace > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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