LivingbyFaith Posted November 1, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 211 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/28/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/06/1970 Share Posted November 1, 2018 12 hours ago, WordSword said: Fair question, and thanks for your reply! It would depend upon a definition of the phrase. To me self refers to one's own nature, the old man, flesh, not the body but the nature of our spirit (self), which is as we know only sinful and cannot produce true righteousness. The righteousness done by those reborn always derives from God via His Spirit using our new nature, thus the flow is from God, through the believer to others, but not from the believer. The primary identification of self righteousness is that it always attempts to "establish" itself as a source (Rom 10:3), but there exists only one source of righteousness, which as we know is Christ's. The key issue is that righteousness can only result from faith and not from works of any kind (Rom 9:32), and faith is only from God. Thus "your righteousness" (Mat 5:20) is that from God, which is the entire purpose of being in His righteousness, for fellowship with Him. Hope I wasn't too winded with my reply. God's blessings to your Family! Thanks for clarifying this, God bless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordSword Posted November 1, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 167 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,160 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 644 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/07/2010 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 16 hours ago, Gary Lee said: God is light. In Him is no darkness. He does not lie. 1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. But what it really means is.........................what? Hi, and you've singled out quite an instructional passage. The old nature would interpret it "as righteous as He is," but this would be an incorrect interpretation, for the created can never be as personally and essentially as the Creator in anything, which would require being deity whom had no beginning. This is merely to understand that those who are righteous do righteousness, to show they are righteous, for witnessing and encouraging. But this can be misinterpreted that doing righteousness effects one to be righteous. A good companion passage is "As He is so are we" (1 John 4:17). This, again, does not intend essential equality but "likeness" in the son-ship of God, i.e. as He was obedient to the Father, so are we. As He is with the Father, so are we through Christ by Their Holy Spirit, etc. Could be paraphrased as, He that does righteousness manifests he is righteous, because ("even as") He is righteous, i.e. being in God makes us holy because He is holy. Appreciate your reply and comment GL! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordSword Posted November 4, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 167 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,160 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 644 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/07/2010 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 4, 2018 This is just a note of correction on the prologue to “Personal Righteousness,” that the word “unimpeded” should be impeded, as some probably noticed. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Pumpkin* Posted November 4, 2018 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 124 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 153 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/11/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted November 4, 2018 May I join in on this discussion? Thanks! This issue is not complicated at all; only if we make it so. It is a biblical FACT that our "own" righteousness will never merit us entrance into the Eternal City of God. Genuine believers do not do works to be saved; but rather they do works because they are saved. True Faith is NEVER alone. We are saved by faith alone that justifies us; however, that faith which justifies is never alone. In other words: genuine faith and conversion will in do doubt produce fruits of the Spirit, and fruits of the Spirit is indicative of someone who truly has been regenerated through the precious blood of Jesus Christ (cf. Gal. 5:22-23; Rom. 6:1-4; 2 Cor. 5:17; et al.). As James said: a faith without the evidence of works is referred to as "dead" faith (cf. Heb. 6:1-8)-- and that even the demons believe that God is one. That sort of "empty" faith or belief is questioned by James when he says, "can THAT (i.e., "that type of faith") faith save? (James 2:14). This was a rhetorical question (i.e., false faith on par with the demons also believing"cannot save"). The "works" that James speak of is "evidence" (to OTHER people, and not to God only -- fruits) that we have been born of God. We can see the results of one who has truly been born-again by their deeds, and not the other way around; which is putting the cart before the horse. He says that Abraham was justified by Grace . . . meaning that his "works" and fruits of the Spirit was proof that his faith was indeed genuine. In Galatians 5:22-23, Paul says "THE" (definite article) fruit (Grk. "karpos" singular) of the Spirit; which means that "fruit" of the Spirit encompasses all the manifestations or traits of genuine conversion (e.g., "Love, joy, peace, self-control, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and patience"). In the parable of the vine and the branches (Jn. 15:1-17), Jesus said those who fail to produce NO fruits continually at all are cast into the fire to be burned (hell and the Lake of Fire). We must also keep in mind that it is the Spirit of God dwelling within us that enables us to do good works and produce a spiritual crops (cf. Isa. 26:12; Gal. 2:8; Eph. 2:10; Phil. 2:13; 4:13; 1 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 13:21). In Christ, *Pumpkin* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordSword Posted November 5, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 167 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,160 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 644 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/07/2010 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, *Pumpkin* said: May I join in on this discussion? Thanks! This issue is not complicated at all; only if we make it so. It is a biblical FACT that our "own" righteousness will never merit us entrance into the Eternal City of God. Genuine believers do not do works to be saved; but rather they do works because they are saved. True Faith is NEVER alone. We are saved by faith alone that justifies us; however, that faith which justifies is never alone. In other words: genuine faith and conversion will in do doubt produce fruits of the Spirit, and fruits of the Spirit is indicative of someone who truly has been regenerated through the precious blood of Jesus Christ (cf. Gal. 5:22-23; Rom. 6:1-4; 2 Cor. 5:17; et al.). As James said: a faith without the evidence of works is referred to as "dead" faith (cf. Heb. 6:1-8)-- and that even the demons believe that God is one. That sort of "empty" faith or belief is questioned by James when he says, "can THAT (i.e., "that type of faith") faith save? (James 2:14). This was a rhetorical question (i.e., false faith on par with the demons also believing"cannot save"). The "works" that James speak of is "evidence" (to OTHER people, and not to God only -- fruits) that we have been born of God. We can see the results of one who has truly been born-again by their deeds, and not the other way around; which is putting the cart before the horse. He says that Abraham was justified by Grace . . . meaning that his "works" and fruits of the Spirit was proof that his faith was indeed genuine. In Galatians 5:22-23, Paul says "THE" (definite article) fruit (Grk. "karpos" singular) of the Spirit; which means that "fruit" of the Spirit encompasses all the manifestations or traits of genuine conversion (e.g., "Love, joy, peace, self-control, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and patience"). In the parable of the vine and the branches (Jn. 15:1-17), Jesus said those who fail to produce NO fruits continually at all are cast into the fire to be burned (hell and the Lake of Fire). We must also keep in mind that it is the Spirit of God dwelling within us that enables us to do good works and produce a spiritual crops (cf. Isa. 26:12; Gal. 2:8; Eph. 2:10; Phil. 2:13; 4:13; 1 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 13:21). In Christ, *Pumpkin* Hi, and appreciate your reply, it has lost of good comments I agree with. Amen, we are not saved by faith nor its works, for we are saved "by grace" -- "through faith" (Eph 2:8). I see it that faith has two primary functions (which appears to agree with your post): medium for receiving salvation; evidence of salvation. "By works a man is justified" (v 24). Here the word "justified" can be misused. It has two definitions: to make one righteous; to show one is righteous. In accepting this we see the latter meaning to be the correct usage for this verse, because only God can make one righteous. Concerning the devils, you may know they only believe "about" God but not "in" God, because they see Him, which is not a saving faith, lacking trust in Him; and I think many people have this type of "historical" faith in name and words only, but do not trust Him at His Word. Myself, I do not believe one can have a saving faith and not be used by God to manifest it, nor can this type of faith ever become undesirable to one reborn. Resting Above, Your Brother in Christ Edited November 5, 2018 by WordSword 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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