Just How Close Are We to This Final Rebellion?

[apothanein kerdos]

Yes, let's get people to accept Christ out of a sense of urgency and fear! Let them be afraid so much that they accept Him because He might come back in our life time. Forget that they are to accept Him because they love Him, we dont' have time for that anymore! Let's scare the hell (literally) out of them!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think it is inappropriate to use the element of "fear" with certain people in evangelism.

Jud 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

Jud 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Some people will respond according to the love of God, others will respond because they don't want to perish in hell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Fear" is not actually fear...no one seems to be grasping this.

It comes from the Greek root phobos and can mean either terror (absolute fear of something, where we get our word "phobia") or reverence (generally used about a husband). So, what is this book saying? Is it saying these people had a phobia of God that subsequently lead them to Him? No, absolutely not. "Fear", when discussing God, is almost alwas used about reverence. In essence, these people weren't afraid, but had a revrence about God and Christ. The only way someone can do this is to love that person first.

Take for instance that the word phobos is also used to describe a wife's revrence for her husband. How can she have this is she doesn't already love him? The interpretation of reverence seems to make most sense in the contesxt. In verse twenty-one he commands them to keep themselves in the love of Christ. This relates back to reverence, or respect.

An alternative interpretation, if you want to accept that phobos is ot mean fear is that Jude was commanding these people to show mercy with fear, or caution. That show mercy to a certain group of unbelievers but do so with the utmost caution of falling into the traps they have laid (garments of the flesh). Do not accept their nature and be careful when witnessing.

Either way, it is not talking about bringing people to Christ out of fear (how we understand the word) or because people are afraid of the fires of hell. Snacthing from the fires of hell is talking about a different group of people. It seperates the two by stating "and on some". The fact is, trying to scare people into Christ doesn't work. If someone accepts Christ because they're afraid of hell then what has been gained? They don't love Him, they don't care about discipleship, they merely feel obligated to do what He commands so they dont' go to hell. What if someone married you because they were afraid of what you would do to them if you didn't? Is that truly and honestly love, or a healthy marriage?

Oh, and Zayit, as for your scriptures, the Hebrew word for fear is yir'ah, which likewise means respect and reverence, only it is more specific to God.

[Kabowd]

Jesus said that it is love that motivates obedience (John 14:15) and Paul taught us that it is kindness that leads to repentance (Romans 2:4). Anyone who is motivated to serve God out of fear will be burdened by a yoke of slavery and their service to Him will soon fizzle out. Only someone who is motivated by love will have the proper "fear" (reverence) and honor towards the Lord...which will lead to a life that serves Him and glorifies Him.

God doesn't want people to serve Him out of fear, He wants people to serve and follow Him out of love.

[Tishri 1]

Ps 34:9

Oh, fear the Lord, you His saints! There is no want to those who fear Him.

Ps 115:11

You who fear the Lord, trust in the Lord; He is their help and their shield.

Ps 22:23

You who fear the Lord, praise Him! All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him, And fear Him, all you offspring of Israel!

Ps 33:8

Let all the earth fear the Lord; Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him.Ac 9:31

Then the churches throughout all Judea, Galilee, and Samaria had peace and were edified. And walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, they were multiplied.

Ps 111:10

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding have all those who do His commandments. His praise endures forever.

Pr 1:7

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Zhavonay, these are great scriptures! we are all seeing only thru a dark lense but as the days draw near that darkness will be shed off the eyes of the righteous, but the wicked person's heart will become darker still and more wicked... and those who have not decided I believe will have to make a choice...there will be no more grey areas to survive in...

[apothanein kerdos]

Ps 34:9

Oh, fear the Lord, you His saints! There is no want to those who fear Him.

Ps 115:11

You who fear the Lord, trust in the Lord; He is their help and their shield.

Ps 22:23

You who fear the Lord, praise Him! All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him, And fear Him, all you offspring of Israel!

Ps 33:8

Let all the earth fear the Lord; Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him.Ac 9:31

Then the churches throughout all Judea, Galilee, and Samaria had peace and were edified. And walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, they were multiplied.

Ps 111:10

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding have all those who do His commandments. His praise endures forever.

Pr 1:7

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Zhavonay, these are great scriptures! we are all seeing only thru a dark lense but as the days draw near that darkness will be shed off the eyes of the righteous, but the wicked person's heart will become darker still and more wicked... and those who have not decided I believe will have to make a choice...there will be no more grey areas to survive in...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From my above post:

the Hebrew word for fear is yir'ah, which likewise means respect and reverence, only it is more specific to God.

[Tishri 1]

you are right

<04172> (mora or mora or morah) (432b)

Meaning: a fear, terror

Origin: from 3372a

Usage: fear(3), respect(1), reverence(1), terror(3), terrors(1), what they fear(1), who is to be feared(1).

<5399> (phobeo)

Meaning: to put to flight, to terrify, frighten

Origin: from 5401

Usage: afraid(41), am afraid(2), fear(27), feared(5), fearful(2), fearing(6), fears(2), filled with awe(1), frightened(6), have fear(1), respect(1).

I see what you mean

[Guest Zayit]

Oh, and Zayit, as for your scriptures, the Hebrew word for fear is yir'ah, which likewise means respect and reverence, only it is more specific to God.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am well aware of the Hebrew meaning of fear, I did a teaching on it years ago because many are confused by that translation, I am not sure what scriputures of mine you are referring to though???

[Guest Zayit]

Oh, did you mean where I commented on the scriptures Trust and Obey posted?

If so , that is from the Brit Chadasha and the word translated fear is from the GREEK Phobos which means terror or fear or dred, or like the Hebrew, reverence for ones' husband.

I understand this as not scaring them to repentance, but rather what I feel in my heart a lot when I see lost souls or misguided souls, I fear for them for what I know will come upon them if they don't make teshuvah.

At least that is how I read this scripture.

And others save with fear, pulling [them] out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

[Tishri 1]

here's yours

<03374> (yirah) (432a)

Meaning: a fear

Origin: from 3372a

Usage: awesome(1), extremely*(1), fear(35), fearing(1), reverence(5).

<03372a> (yare) (431a)

Meaning: to fear

Origin: a prim. root

Usage: afraid(100), awesome(22), awesome acts(1), awesome things(4), became(1), became afraid(1), became frightened(1), become frightened(1), cautious(1), dismayed(1), fear(166), feared(36), fearful(1), fearful thing(1), fearfully(1), fearing(5), fears(9), frighten(4), frightened(2), have fear(1), made afraid(1), revere(10), revered(3), reverence(3), showed reverence(1), stand in awe(1), terrible(3), terrible things(1), terrifying(2).

The Hebrew is so much richer than the greek

<01481c> (gur) (158d)

Meaning: to dread

Origin: a prim. root

Usage: afraid(2), dreaded(1), fear(4), feared(1), stand in awe(2).

<01763>(dechal) (1087c)

Meaning: to fear

Origin: (Ara.) a prim. root

Usage: awesome(1), dreadful(2), fear(1), feared(1), made fearful(1).

<06342> (pachad) (808b)

Meaning: to dread, be in dread or in awe

Origin: a prim. root

Usage: afraid(3), come in dread(1), come in trembling(1), dread(6), fear(4), fears(1), shake(1), stands in awe(1), terrified(2), thrill(1), tremble(2), turned in fear(1).

<02731> (charadah) (353d)

Meaning: trembling, fear, anxiety

Origin: fem. of 2730a

Usage: care(m)(1), dread(1), fear(1), terror(1), trembling(4), violently*(m)(1).

It's amazing how many different words there are in the Hebrew VS the greek no wonder the Hebrew thought behind many verses is lost in the new testiment

Edited July 6, 2005 by Tishri 1

[Kabowd]

Worry, fear or concern for lost souls is one thing. But causing lost souls to fear in hopes to bring them to repentance is not wise, nor biblical. God has so many gracious attributes we can reflect that should draw them to Him if we display them. Yes, people need warned about the danger in rejecting God...but this should come long after there has been great effort to bring them to repentance with kindness. Hell, fire and brimstone and armageddon messages have their place ... but in general, I don't believe in scaring people into repentance. It doesn't produce a lasting committment like love does.

[Tishri 1]

I agree that we can present the Truth in a factual but not intimidating way...The conviction HAS to come from the Holy Spirit to produce repentance unto Salvation! I do believe that people everywhere would like to know what God is doing in the world...most people cannot even see him moving untill we show them. Most people appreciate our telling them the Truth.

Ezekiel 3:17-21 17 "Son of man, I have appointed you a (a)watchman to the house of Israel; whenever you hear a word from My mouth, (b)warn them from Me. 18 "When I say to the wicked, 'You shall surely die'; and you do not warn him or speak out to warn the wicked from his wicked way that he may live, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his (a)blood I will require at your hand. 19 "Yet if you have (a)warned the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have (b)delivered yourself. 20 "Again, (a)when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and I place an (b)obstacle before him, he shall die; since you have not warned him, he shall die in his sin, and his righteous deeds which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand. 21 "However, if you have (a)warned (1)the righteous man that the righteous should not sin, and he does not sin, he shall surely live because he took warning; and you have delivered yourself."

Hosea 4:6 6 (a)My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have (b)rejected knowledge, I also will ©reject you from being My priest. Since you have (d)forgotten the (e)law of your God, I also will forget your children.