Guest suzie Posted December 5, 2002 Share Posted December 5, 2002 Works- Never have I referred to these groups as Scriptural nor did I say they were Christian. "For the most part, the people there have stopped drinking because of AA, not because of the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. AA merely replaces their obsession. That is no answer and certainly not Godly. We have a large AA group that meets in our church basement. As they furiously huff and puff on their cigarettes and gulp their many cups of coffee, (replacement obsessions and addictions) , they hear all about making ammends with people, righting their past wrongs, how to deal with situations without alchohol etc, etc. Just bandaids" I would say from this quote of yours that gives your attitude of AA. There are many Christians who attend AA meetings however. You show shallow insight to the disease of alcoholism as well as the recovery program that AA provides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work in Progress Posted December 5, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,111 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 35 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 5, 2002 posted twice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work in Progress Posted December 5, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,111 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 35 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 5, 2002 Works- Never have I referred to these groups as Scriptural nor did I say they were Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest suzie Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 How would you know what is going on at the AA meetings unless you were in attendance at these? How many AA meetings have you attended? I am not, nor are people in AA seeking to impress you with their program, however, it was based on biblical and spiritual ideals. I do not believe you do understand the disease of alcoholism nor the treatments available including the function of AA or Alanon. Here is some information about alcoholism that contradicts your opinion...... The National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence fights the stigma and the disease of alcoholism and other drug addictions. Facts and Information Definition of Alcoholism "Alcoholism is a primary, chronic disease with genetic, psychosocial, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. The disease is often progressive and fatal. It is characterized by continuous or periodic: impaired control over drinking, preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking, most notably denial." "Primary" refers to the nature of alcoholism as a disease entity in addition to and separate from other pathophysiologic states which may be associated with it. "Primary" suggests that alcoholism, as an addiction, is not a symptom of an underlying disease state. "Disease" means an involuntary disability. It represents the sum of the abnormal phenomena displayed by a group of individuals. These phenomena are associated with a specified common set of characteristics by which these individuals differ from the norm, and which places them at a disadvantage. "Often progressive and fatal" means that the disease persists over time and that physical, emotional, and social changes are often cumulative and may progress as drinking continues. Alcoholism causes premature death through overdose, organic complications involving the brain, liver, heart and many other organs, and by contributing to suicide, homicide, motor vehicle crashes, and other traumatic events. "Impaired control" means the inability to limit alcohol use or to consistently limit on any drinking occasion the duration of the episode, the quantity consumed, and/or the behavioral consequences of drinking. "Preoccupation" in association with alcohol use indicates excessive, focused attention given to the drug alcohol, its effects, and/or its use. The relative value thus assigned to alcohol by the individual often leads to a diversion of energies away from important life concerns. "Adverse consequences" are alcohol-related problems or impairments in such areas as: physical health (e.g., alcohol withdrawal syndromes, liver disease, gastritis, anemia, neurological disorders); psychological functioning (e.g., impairments in cognition, changes in mood and behavior); interpersonal functioning (e.g., marital problems and child abuse, impaired social relationships); occupational functioning (e.g., scholastic or job problems); and legal, financial, or spiritual problems. "Denial" is used here not only in the psychoanalytic sense of a single psychological defense mechanism disavowing the significance of events, but more broadly to include a range of psychological maneuvers designed to reduce awareness of the fact that alcohol use is the cause of an individual's problems rather than a solution to those problems. Denial becomes an integral part of the disease and a major obstacle to recovery. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Approved by the Boards of Directors of the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence, Inc. (February 3, 1990) and the American Society of Addiction Medicine (February 25, 1990). This definition was prepared by the Joint Committee to Study the Definition and Criteria for the Diagnosis of Alcoholism of the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence and the American Society of Addiction Medicine: Convenors: Robert M. Morse, MD, Joint Committee Chairman; Daniel K. Flavin, MD, NCADD Medical/Scientific Director Members: Daniel J. Anderson, PhD; Margaret Bean-Bayog, MD; Henri Begleiter MD, PhD; Sheila B. Blume, MD, CAC; Jean Forest, MD; Stanley E. Gitlow, MD; Enoch Gordis, MD; James E. Kelsey, MD; Nancy K. Mello, PhD; Roger E. Meyer, MD; Robert G. Niven, MD; Ann Noll; Barton Pakull, MD; Katherine K. Pike; Lucy Barry Robe; Max A. Schneider, MD; Marc Schuckit, MD; David E. Smith, MD; Emanuel M. Steindler; Boris Tabakoff, PhD; George Vaillant, MD Members Ex-Officio: James Callahan, DPA; Jasper Chen-See, MD; Robert D. Sparks, MD Emeritus Consultant: Frank A. Seixas, MD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C.D. Light Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 God forbids divorce and even says that He hates it. That certainly says enough about that. If you are physically in danger, please remove yourself to stay safe. As far as "deserving" anything, that is a lie fed to us from the world. None of us "deserve" anything but eternal separation from God. Some people are blessed with life partners they love and who love them. Talk about a blessing! Some people are "stuck" with people they no longer love, due to the choices they have made for whatever reason. No rationalization (ie - "I wasn't saved when I married him", "he cheated on me", "he doesn't love/respect me") will justify going against God's word that divorce is not an option for a Christian. Divorce/separation - these are words that reek of the word "me". "Me" (or "self") is the number one enemy of the Christian and the basis of all sin. God bless and may He work a miracle on your marriage. No, god does not forbid divorce; in the NT he says he hates divorce, but for the hardness of the heart, he permits it. There is clearly mental abuse here; god does not demand we live with abuse. Either he does his part here, or he gets the boot. You cant "make" anybody do what they ought to do. Lets not put legalities in the way here. cd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C.D. Light Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Star: Haven't heard of your book. But, years ago, I read a book entitled "We became the wives of happy husbands". Can't remember the authors. Each chapter was written by a different wife. Anyway, these women dared to go against the worlds' way and talked about humility and love and serving their husbands no matter how badly they acted. And these women were married to alcoholics and worse. Some Christians, some not. I brought the book to the women of the church for use for the next Bible study. There was much eye rolling and scoffing and one woman even said - "Please! I refuse to be a doormat, which is exactly what this book says to do" and they dismissed the book. Today, that woman is STILL married to a non Christian alcholic, one is divorced, one's husband committed suicide, one's husband still has nothing to do with the Lord, etc etc. They refused to humble themselves and obey God and insisted on their "rights" and what they "deserved". However, I am married to a wonderful (though not perfect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work in Progress Posted December 7, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,111 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 35 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 7, 2002 CD Light -being a jerk is not mental abuse. Being mean is not mental abuse. Mental abuse is not common. You judge a book you haven't even read? Just because a prideful woman said it made women "doormats", you parrot that? The woman was full of pride and wasn't about to let God tell her what to do. We simply do not agree on this issue. That's okay. I can't fathom a Christian with a "throw the bum out" attitude and you can't fathom mine. But, I'll hold my way against yours any day and bet the results will be fabulous. And I've seen it work several times. I've seen your way fail thousands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest suzie Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 Works- What in your "educated" opinion does mental or physical abuse encompass? Thousands of times of failure? You are in the counseling field? How do you not know that others who have left situations have not been led to do so by God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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