Catholics and Salvation

[Fiosh]

After leaving the Catholic Church a while back, I've decided to go back and study WHAT they teach and WHY. Some of the most misunderstood doctrinal issues about the Catholic Church, have to do with dealing with salvation itself. I've obtained a recent booklet explaining the Catholic view of salvation.

This is straight from the horses mouth folks! The Catholic view on salvation is as follows:

What You Must Do to Be Saved

Best of all, the promise of eternal life is a gift, freely offered to us by God. Our initial forgiveness and justification are not things we "earn". Jesus is the mediator who bridged the gap of sin that separates us from God (1TIM 2:5) he bridged it by dying for us. He has chosen to make us partners in the plan of salvation (1Cor 3:9).

The Catholic Church teaches what the apostles taught and what the Bible teaches: We are saved by grace alone, but not by faith alone (which is what "Bible Christians" teach; see Jas. 2:24).

When we come to God and are justified (that is, enter a right relationship with God), nothing preceding justification, whether faith or good works, earns grace. But then God plants his love in our hearts, and we should live out our faith by doing acts of love (Gal. 6:2).

Even though only God's grace enables us to love others, these acts of love please him, and he promises to reward them with eternal life (Rom. 2:6-7, Gal. 6:6-10). Thus good works are meritorious. When we first come to God in faith, we have nothing in our hands to offer him. Then he gives us grace to obey his commandments in love, and he rewards us with salvation when we offer these acts of love back to him (Rom. 2:6-11, Gal. 6:6-10, Matt. 25:34-40).

Jesus said it is not enough to have faith in him; we also must obey his commandments. "Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord,' but do not do the things I command?' (Luke 6:46, Matt. 7:21-23, 19:16-21).

We do not "earn" our salvation through good works (Eph. 2:8-9, Rom. 9:16), but our faith in Christ puts us in a special grace-filled relationship with God so that our obedience and love, combined with our faith, will be rewarded with eternal life (Rom. 2:7, Gal. 6:8-9).

Paul said, "God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work" (Phil. 2:13). John explained that "the way we may be sure that we know him is to keep his commandments. Whoever says, 'I know him,' but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him" (1John 2:3-4, 3:19-24, 5:3-4). Since no gift can be forced on the recipient-gifts always can be rejected-even after we become justified, we can throw away the gift of salvation. We throw it away through grave (mortal) sin (John 15:5-6, Rom. 11:22-23, 1Cor. 15:1-2). Paul tells us, "The wages of sin is death" (Rom 6:23).

Read his letters and see how often Paul warned Christians against sin! He would not have felt compelled to do so if their sins could not exclude them from heaven (see for example, 1Cor. 6;9-10, Gal. 5:19-21). Paul reminded the Christians in Rome that God "will repay everyone according to his works: eternal life for those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey  the truth and obey wickedness" (Rom. 2:6-8).

Sins are nothing but evil works. We can avoid sins by habitually performing good works. Every saint has known that the best way to keep free from sins is to embrace regular prayer, the sacraments (the Eucharist first of all), and charitable acts.

Are You Guaranteed Heaven?

Some people promote an especially attractive idea: All true Christians, regardless of how they live, have an absolute assurance of salvation, once they accept Jesus into their hearts as "their personal Lord and Savior." The problem is that this belief is contrary to the Bible and constant Christian teaching.

Keep in mind what Paul told the Christians of his day: "If we have died with him [in baptism; see Rom. 6:3-4] we shall also live with him; if we persevere we shall also reign with him" (2Tim. 2:11-12). If we do not persevere, we shall not reign with him. In other words, Christians can forfeit heaven.

The Bible makes it clear that Christians have a moral assurance of salvation (God will be true to his word and will grant salvation to those who have faith in Christ and are obedient to him [1John 3:19-24]), but the Bible does not teach that Christians have a guarantee of heaven. There can be no absolute assurance of salvation.

Writing to Christians, Paul said, "See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness, otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22-23; Matt. 18:21-35, 1Cor. 15:1-2, 2Pet. 2:20-21).

Note that Paul includes an important condition: 'provided you remain in his kindness." He is saying that Christians can lose their salvation by throwing it away. He warns, "Whoever thinks he is standing secure should take care not to fall" (1Cor. 10:11-12).

If you are Catholic and someone asks you if you have been "saved," you should say, "I am redeemed by the blood of Christ, I trust in him alone for my salvation, and, as the Bible teaches, I am 'working out my salvation in fear and trembling' (Phil 2:12), knowing that it is God's gift of grace that is working in me."

Okay folks, so there you have it, straight from the horses mouth!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you, Tari! A beautiful and concise summary of RCC teaching.

btw: I visited Arizona 2 years ago--the scenery is breath-taking. It's truly God's masterpiece...especially Sedona!

Peace,

Fiosh

[NITE OWL]

Foish

How does the RCC know what my interpretation is?

What is your interpretation of those verses? Put the RCC aside, what do you believe?

When you stand before God to give an account, the RCC won't be there to give it for you.

I'm not trying to trip you up kiddo, this is some very serious stuff. You shouldn't rely on the belief of others to get you into the kingdom of God.

[Fiosh]

Foish

How does the RCC know what my interpretation is?

What is your interpretation of those verses? Put the RCC aside, what do you believe?

When you stand before God to give an account, the RCC won't be there to give it for you.

I'm not trying to trip you up kiddo, this is some very serious stuff. You shouldn't rely on the belief of others to get you into the kingdom of God.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Nite,

I was using the word "you" to mean "you fundies". (and you know that)

What do I believe? I believe that I should love God with all my heart, with all my strength and with all my mind. I believe I should worship God alone.

When I stand to give account, I will confess that I have sinned horribly against a perfect and holy God and deserve eternal damnation. Then I will throw myself at the feet of Jesus trusting in His love and forgiveness. He will pick me up and embrace me as His own.

And I will spend eternity praising Him with all the angels and saints.

However, I know I can trust my Church because it is guided by the Holy Spirit.

I only trust the RCC because I trust the Holy Spirit first.

Let me ask you a question. Is it wrong for me to have a picture of my son holding a prize winning bass that he caught, hanging on my living room wall?

I love you, Bro' Nite,

F

[NITE OWL]

How big was the fish?

You know what I'm saying Fiosh.

Maybe you should start a thread on this topic. Start it and sit back and listen.

If you are truly honest with yourself, you can not see it any other way.

What do you think? Shall we stir the pot?

[Trust & Obey]

I have talked to one Catholic who says they are  a "catholic christian"  I have heard thing from this person like praying to their dead mother because she's close to Jesus the they are.  This person is  wondrful  but works seem to be the main theme on salvation.  When asked if they have ever accepted Christ they say yes.  I can only pray they know the truth according to the word of God and not to the Catholic church.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where did the word of God come from? It was oral tradition, inspired by the holy spirit and written down by the early church fathers. And guess what, they were Catholic. So when you open up your Bible to read scripture, be sure to thank the Catholic Church for giving you a Bible to read.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, Pax. It wasn't "oral tradition" at all. The Word of God was literally God-breathed.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be perfected, thoroughly furnished to every good work.

Men wrote exactly as they were led by the Holy Spirit.

2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

[Fiosh]

How big was the fish?

You know what I'm saying Fiosh.

Maybe you should start a thread on this topic. Start it and sit back and listen.

If you are truly honest with yourself, you can not see it any other way.

What do you think? Shall we stir the pot?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you afraid to answer my question for some reason??

Is the picture ok or not?

[NITE OWL]

How big was the fish?

You know what I'm saying Fiosh.

Maybe you should start a thread on this topic. Start it and sit back and listen.

If you are truly honest with yourself, you can not see it any other way.

What do you think? Shall we stir the pot?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you afraid to answer my question for some reason??

Is the picture ok or not?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course it is.

If it were not, I would have said so. You know that.

You settle down.

Another day perhaps.

[Fiosh]

How big was the fish?

You know what I'm saying Fiosh.

Maybe you should start a thread on this topic. Start it and sit back and listen.

If you are truly honest with yourself, you can not see it any other way.

What do you think? Shall we stir the pot?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you afraid to answer my question for some reason??

Is the picture ok or not?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course it is.

If it were not, I would have said so. You know that.

You settle down.

Another day perhaps.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You crack me up more often than anyone on WB!

Ok, so I can have a picture of my son holding a fish on my living room wall?

Deut 4: 15-16 "...beware lest you act corruptly by making a graven image for yourselves, in the form of any figure, the likeness of male or female, the likeness of any beast that is on the earth..."

Ex. 20: 3-4 "You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth..."

I'm assuming you posted these verses to support your assertion that RC's go against Scripture by having statues and pictures in church. To follow that interpretation to it's logical conclusion, you would also have to believe it was counter to Scripture to have them at home.

You don't believe it's wrong. So you contradict yourself. No?

Love ya,

Fiosh

[Guest JAR61]

John 3:16: For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever would BELIEVE, would not perish but have life eternal.

The 2 thieves on the cross demonstrate it was by faith that one was saved.

I agree that TRUE faith should move us to WORKS.... and that works is a reflection of our faith walk.... but not everyone is a Mother Theresa or Billy Graham.

If your premise is true, that our works reflect our salvation that you need to be concerned for every Catholic monk who lives a monastic life for they do no works for the betterment of humanity...

[chimoku]

If your premise is true, that our works reflect our salvation that you need to be concerned for every Catholic monk who lives a monastic life for they do no works for the betterment of humanity...

.... it depends what you mean by "works"

...I think a life devouted to intercessory prayer which many of the monks engage is is truly reflective of their life in the Spirit . . .