Trust & Obey

When people do me wrong I just "take it" like we are exhorted to in Peter and then I just leave them in the Lord's hands. 1Pe 2:19 For this is a grace, if for conscience toward God anyone endures grief, suffering wrongfully. 1Pe 2:20 For what glory is it if you patiently endure while sinning and being buffeted? But if you suffer while doing good, and patiently endure, this is a grace from God. 1Pe 2:21 For you were not called to this? For Christ also suffered on our behalf, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps, Rom 12:17 Repay no one evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. Rom 12:18 If it is possible, as far as is in you, being in peace with all men. Rom 12:19 not avenging yourselves, beloved, but giving place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, says the Lord." Rom 12:20 Therefore if your enemy hungers, feed him. If he thirsts, give him drink. For in so doing you shall heap coals of fire on his head. Rom 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

No point in reposting the numerous Scriptures that teach otherwise I guess, since they have already been posted. But read Romans - every human is born "dead", unable to reach God on his own and lost in his sin. If anything speaks to the depravity of the human state, Romans is it. Paul was clear that there is no inherant "good" in ourselves and we are unable to seek God on our own. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Read that passage again. Then please answer this question - How can a dead man be crucified with Christ if they are already dead? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Dead in tresspasses in sin. Spiritually dead, not physically dead.

The Bible does not specifically condemn the practice of polygamy until the New Testament, but that does not mean God approved of polygamy before. God ordained one-woman, one-man marriage in the beginning. Polygamy originated with Lamech (Genesis. 4:19) David, Solomon, and other kings who had multiple wives were living contrary to God's Word. Most men of God even in the Old Testament had only one wife. This is true for Adam, Noah, Isaac, Joseph, Moses, Boaz, Job, Isaiah, and Hosea. Is there a New Testament example of a godly Christian having more than one wife? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, I agree that it is God's ideal for a man to have one wife. But, David was called "a man after God's own heart" and he had multiple wives. Abraham is the "father of all who believe" and "the father of our faith" and he had multiple wives. I'm not sure if polygamy is a sin or not. That plural marriage in the Netherlands is sinful because the women are bisexual and thus are having a relationship between themselves, too. That is sinful. But, is a normal heterosexual polygamous marriage sin? I can't say for sure that it is given the examples of Abraham and David. Furthermore, the passage that talks about elders/deacons being "husbands of one wife" seems to indicate that those who do not seek such an office could have more than one wife. Similar to this: 1Ti 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; Notice how it says "much wine." Thus, they can enjoy some wine. However, the Bishop cannot be given to any wine. Tit 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

Look at Solomon didn't he have 700 wifes!!! that's so hard to believe and in the end he turned way from God and followed the gods from his wifes. What good did it bring him? He tried it all and nothing on this earth was satisfying him. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, but wives to a king in that era weren't "life partners" like they are now. They just hung out in the harem and waited to be picked. Kind of like a collection of really nice sports cars in the garage. What am I in the mood to drive today?

1Ti 5:3 Honour widows that are widows indeed. 1Ti 5:4 But if any widow have children or nephews, let them learn first to shew piety at home, and to requite their parents: for that is good and acceptable before God. 1Ti 5:5 Now she that is a widow indeed, and desolate, trusteth in God, and continueth in supplications and prayers night and day. 1Ti 5:6 But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth. 1Ti 5:7 And these things give in charge, that they may be blameless. 1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. 1Ti 5:9 Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man, 1Ti 5:10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work. 1Ti 5:11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; 1Ti 5:12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith. 1Ti 5:13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not. 1Ti 5:14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully. 1Ti 5:15 For some are already turned aside after Satan. 1Ti 5:16 If any man or woman that believeth have widows, let them relieve them, and let not the church be charged; that it may relieve them that are widows indeed.

Franky, Christ will come again for His Church... His Bride... you and I. Then, after 7 years in heaven we will return with Him at the end of the GT. The Rapture is what is next on the prophetic calendar and it is not the same as the 2nd Coming. At the Rapture Christ will only be coming for those who are His. It is not the same as the one where "every eye will see Him," which is the 2nd Coming at the end of the GT.

Awesome! It also demonstrates the pre-trib Rapture scenario.

I've heard that it's a great, clean documentary. I plan on taking my kids to see it (their first movie theater experience). Also, it only had a 3 million dollar budget and it has already brought in more than a hundredfold. Hollywood should wake up and see what it is that people want. They complain that viewership is down the last few years... look at what they pump out? Garbage. This penguin movie PROVES that clean, wholesome, family entertainment is what the people want.

That passage says simply that those who sin without the law will perish without the law. Meaning, sin is sin regardless of whether or not you knew. Like they say, ignorance is no excuse from obeying the law. Moreover, Paul said that they are without excuse because God has revealed Himself to all men through the creation.

So are you implying that we all chop our legs up? Maybe blasphmy against the Holy Spirit.....but that kinda freaks me out. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Once one becomes saved---its impossible to blaspheme the Holy Spirit... the very word "spirit"---reveals this. when one is born from above, born anew, born again----their Spirit---has been matched up with The HOly Spirit---which is the Godhead Spirit--- blaspheming the Holy Spirit---is done when one rejects the working of the Cross and resurrection---in their sinful life. denying Christ---is blasphemy-- it is saying---God isnt good enough for me. thats, what blasphemying the Holy Spirit---is all about. anyone who dies, withouth Jesus as their saviour and purifier of their heart/spirit--- will not be forgiven. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So saying that I may drop my Christianity for a bit is blasphmey against the Holy Spirit> If that is so....then I am in a bit of bother. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yomo, don't give up. Keep pressing on! I'm in a period where I don't "feel God" like I used to. My circumstances are not the greatest (currently unemployed with a 3rd baby on the way... wife is 7 months pregnant)... but, I know that God is on the throne. I know that He knows my circumstances and I've taken it to Him in prayer. Again: Joh 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. What else is there other than Christ? Return to the vomit of the world? That is hardly an attractive option. Here's what I tell myself. Even IF I did something that could cause me to lose my salvation (I don't believe this can happen this is just for the sake of argument) I would still try to live for the Lord. I would rather put myself into His hands that way than live a life of open rebellion.

WSB, EricH, Ovedya, I'd like to get some opinions on the verse I cited in 1 Cor. 1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. What do you think this means?

So are you implying that we all chop our legs up? Maybe blasphmy against the Holy Spirit.....but that kinda freaks me out. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Once one becomes saved---its impossible to blaspheme the Holy Spirit... the very word "spirit"---reveals this. when one is born from above, born anew, born again----their Spirit---has been matched up with The HOly Spirit---which is the Godhead Spirit--- blaspheming the Holy Spirit---is done when one rejects the working of the Cross and resurrection---in their sinful life. denying Christ---is blasphemy-- it is saying---God isnt good enough for me. thats, what blasphemying the Holy Spirit---is all about. anyone who dies, withouth Jesus as their saviour and purifier of their heart/spirit--- will not be forgiven. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That is the "popular view" in my Church as well. But, I'm not totally on board with it. The passage itself, nor its context, indicates that is what it is. Honestly, the passage seems to indicate that it is a very easy thing to do. Simply "speaking a word against the Holy Spirit" seems to be the "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit." Luk 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven. I guess we have to examine the differences here. Speaking a word against Christ will be forgiven, but blaspheming the Holy Spirit will not be forgiving. The word "blasphemy" means, according to Webster: 1 a : the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God b : the act of claiming the attributes of deity 2 : irreverence toward something considered sacred or inviolable So, it seems a rather easy thing to do... in a moment, not over the course of a whole life. The reason people say it is "the continual rejection of the conviction of the Holy Spirit and of the sacrifice of Jesus" is because we know that all sin can be forgiven by the cross. Thus, this must be the rejection of the remedy for sin, namely the cross of Christ. I'm still not sure of what I believe regarding this doctrine. I'd be interested to hear what others believe about the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Couldn't that argument be used to say that those who never hear of Christ go to heaven? Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes. I think some people who have never heard of Jesus will go to heaven. Because we are judged by what we know not by what we don't know. We are judged by the light that has shone on us. Everyone is given a conscience. We know without ever hearing the law that it is wrong to murder, lie, commit adultery. We all make choices whether to sin or not. Only God knows the heart. He looks upon the heart of man, whereas we cannot. In Christ, CarolineS <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Caroline, then what do you make of this passage? Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; It says those who have sinned without the law shall also perish without the law. Previously in Romans Paul had also said: Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Thus, according to Paul, everyone is without excuse due to God's revelation of Himself simply through the creation.

Couldn't that argument be used to say that those who never hear of Christ go to heaven? Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

There are some passages that seem to indicate that. Here's another couple: Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. But, we also have this: Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; So, have fun reconciling those.

Actually, this is partially true. Sin is not imputed (Rom 5:13), but it is still proper to ask forgiveness for the sins that we do on a daily basis (1 John 1:9). This sounds a lot like "antinomianism" which is something the gnostics believed. It is not scriptural at all. Paul says that we should not continue in sin. Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Rom 6:2 Let it not be! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? He is deceived into thinking that freedom in Christ is license to sin: 1Pe 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: 1Pe 2:16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. And he's one of them, right? Well, not according to Paul, John, and Peter. This is a tricky one. The Bible does talk about some being ill due to unbelief. But, it doesn't go so far as saying God is the source of the illness. My advice: split apart from him. Anyone who comes between you and God is someone to avoid. God bless ya! You have a discerning heart. God's Spirit has been bringing conviction to you over these false ideas.

It is not specified that there even is an age of accountability... at least not that I'm aware of. All I can find on the subject is that children of believers are sanctified (holy) whereas the children of unbelieving parents are unholy. 1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; else your children would be unclean, but now they are holy.

Fiosh, you are dangerously close to being disfellowshiped by the RCC.

I think it was Mark Twain that said when he was a teen his father was the stuppidest person on the face of the earth. Twain said that once he reached his twenties it was amazing how much smarter his father got. <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Enjoy being young... it only happens once and you WILL miss those days as you get older. It is a wonderful thing that you know the Lord at such a young age. Ecc 12:1 Remember now your Creator in the days of your youth, while the evil days do not come, nor the years draw near, when you shall say, I have no pleasure in them.

I see that, too. And, I don't think it's just limited to those "older folks." 1Co 8:1 But concerning the sacrifices to idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies.

Kaitlyn, it is true that at 13 you are going to think you know much more than you really do. Trust me, when I was 13 I knew everything. Then, somehow as I got older I realized that I don't know everything. I must've had memory loss somewhere down the line But, people shouldn't use that against you. We are all constantly learning and each of our understandings is continually evolving. No one "knows it all." But, you are at an age where you probably think you know more than you do. This will continue through your teen years. When you hit, say, 23 or 25 you'll look back and understand. BTW, I was one of those 13 year olds who "saw more than I should have" and that probably adds to the "I know more than I do" syndrome. Just be yourself. Don't allow people to despise your youth. Take what people say with a grain of salt and check it against the Word of God. Surround yourself with other people who love God and are living for Him.

In my darkest hours this is what I fall back on: Joh 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Joh 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Joh 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

I agree. My favorite gatherings are home-fellowships. Much more intimate. Although, the Church we go to is "one of those big ones." Bigger churches usually offer more opportunities for involvement and growth, too.

Parents pay big money to send their kids to private Christian schools because they want their children to be learning acceptable curriculum and to be in a Christian environment. I know.. I'm one of them. Here's the real issue. A Christian school is a private organization that has the Constitutional right to stipulate their own requirements and standards. Just as a Church shouldn't be forced to hire homosexuals... neither should a Christian school be forced to register a child for education that is opposed to their core belief structure. The Bible says homosexuality is wrong and a grave sin. The girls parents are obviously in disagreement with that. So, I would ask why in the world they want their daughter there? So she can learn "homophobia?" I think they're just looking for a scuffle. Sort of like the man who walks into the "women-only gym" and demands to be made a member or else they'll file a sex-discrimination report. Sort of like the woman who wants to play men's football, or be included in a men's golf league. They're looking for trouble. Period.