abbershay Posted October 3, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/03/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted October 3, 2005 Trumpet everyone changes dead are raised to life ( living and dead changed on earth together doing exploits ) then those that remain are gathered with the raised dead all go with Yeshua . 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. notice everyone is changed at the same time the living and the dead. but we shall all be changed, 1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump the dead in Christ shall rise first: This part is not the rapture but rather the change. The dead have to be changed before they rise. THe dead have to rise before they go up . However we are all changed at the sametime. This leaves a gap . THe scripture doesn't say how long the gap is. But there is clearly a gap. It is my thought that during this gap the church will fulfill her destiny. WE will be truly united as one , The church will do mighty exploits to bring glory to our Lord and to provoke the Jews to jealousy . The church will do just what Yeshua said she would do greater things than he did. In this day we will have whatever we ask because we wont ask for stupid self serving things because we will have the full mind of Christ. Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: WE know the time does anyone think this will happen on its own? Joh 17:20 "I pray not only for them, but also for those who believe in me because of their message. Joh 17:21 I pray that they may all be one. Father! May they be in us, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they be one, so that the world will believe that you sent me. Joh 17:22 I gave them the same glory you gave me, so that they may be one, just as you and I are one: Joh 17:23 I in them and you in me, so that they may be completely one, in order that the world may know that you sent me and that you love them as you love me. Joh 17:24 "Father! You have given them to me, and I want them to be with me where I am, so that they may see my glory, the glory you gave me; for you loved me before the world was made. Joh 17:25 Righteous Father! The world does not know you, but I know you, and these know that you sent me. Joh 17:26 I made you known to them, and I will continue to do so, in order that the love you have for me may be in them, and so that I also may be in them." If we just disappear how will the world May they be one, so that the world will believe that you sent me. When the change happens people will no longer give their lives by faith to be saved , they will have to give their lives physically . If they saw the Christians changed this would give them strength to go through what they are going to have to go through. They way it stands If we just disappeared that woudlnt give them much strength. However if you were indifferent to the gospel and you saw a friend who was changed like we will be it would shock the evil right out of you. They are going to have to have strong strong faith to willingly give the necks to the gauntlet. However this will not be the only witness there will be a literal angel proclaiming the gospel in the air. This theory is a general concept since we know the times and we know the purpose of the church < basically times up and we still have to shine. I believe that God is going to make himself so known through his church people will have to reject his love openly without any blindness at all. And they will we see the foreshadows of this already. Ponder this idea yourself with all the factors of the purpose of the church and the love and mercy of God. One more thing since the dead will be live also this will be the first time that the whole church will be in action at once in unity. i dont ask you to belive it , Just consider it . thanks abbershay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruah brit Posted October 3, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 280 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted October 3, 2005 This leaves a gap . THe scripture doesn't say how long the gap is. There is no gap. The scripture does say how long it all takes. 1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, Denise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted October 3, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Greetings Abbershay, You are correct, there is a "gap" between the "resurrection of the dead" and those who are "raptured" or "caught up". Fortunately it is a short one, but it will be the worst part of the Great Tribulation, immediately prior to the "Lord coming with all His saints". At the death of the last of those who will be resurrected, the nations will rejoice, but will not repent. After 3 days of the last of those who will die, they will be resurrected and the Lord will say: "Come up here". This is the first resurrection. Those who are "alive and remain" (a remnant) will at first will fall in terror, but will rise to give glory to God. Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolineS Posted October 3, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 414 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/15/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted October 3, 2005 There is no gap that I can see in scripture. Jesus returns with a cloud of angels and all eyes will see Him. <1Thess. 4:16> "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first." The dead will rise first and those who are alive shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. <1 Thess. 4:17> "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." Where is the gap? In Christ, CarolineS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted October 4, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted October 4, 2005 <1 Thess. 4:17> "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." Where is the gap? 1 Thess 4:15-17 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Can it be made in more plain. The DEAD shall rise FIRST, "then" (at some time AFTER) will those who are alive and remain (a remnant) be caught up together to be with THEM who were caught up in the RESURRECTION. Believe it or not, the resurrection of the Two Witnesses is at the First Resurrection, and the "remnant" are in verse 11:13, who will remain until the 7th Trumpet is sounded and then they are raptured. IOW, those claiming today to be the first to go will actually be those who are LEFT BEHIND! Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolineS Posted October 4, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 414 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/15/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted October 4, 2005 <1 Thess.4:17> "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shll always be with the Lord." Christ is going to return with His angels. Every eye will see Him. The dead will be called from the grave. Those alive (who are righteous) will be caught up "together with them." <1 Corinthians 15:51-52> "Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." The earth will then have a great earthquake. The earthquake will be so devastating that it will leave the world in a state of total destruction. <Rev. 16:18> "And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth." Scripture says we shall all be changed--in a moment. All. It doesn't say the dead will be changed first, "then" later a remnent will be changed. I think you are reading too much into the word "then." I still do not see any gap when Christ returns for His saints. In Christ, CarolineS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolineS Posted October 4, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 414 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/15/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted October 4, 2005 Scripture says we shall all be changed--in a moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted October 4, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted October 4, 2005 This theory has been around for decades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted October 5, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Greetings, The "gap theory" that has been around for decades relates to the "gap" between the cross and the 2nd coming of the Lord, a time that has stood still for the Jews for now over 2,000 years while the Kingdom is ushering in the gentiles. When the fulness of the gentiles be come in (to the Kingdom), then shall be the "fulness of the Jews". This is NOT the gap I am speaking of. Whether you like it or not, I have referred to the Two Witnesses, which reveal the FIRST RESURRECTION, and the remnant that remains until the 7th trumpet. I believe there is a 40 day GAP between the two. Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruah brit Posted October 5, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 280 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted October 5, 2005 <1 Thess.4:17> "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shll always be with the Lord." Christ is going to return with His angels. Every eye will see Him. The dead will be called from the grave. Those alive (who are righteous) will be caught up "together with them." <1 Corinthians 15:51-52> "Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." The earth will then have a great earthquake. The earthquake will be so devastating that it will leave the world in a state of total destruction. <Rev. 16:18> "And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth." Scripture says we shall all be changed--in a moment. All. It doesn't say the dead will be changed first, "then" later a remnent will be changed. I think you are reading too much into the word "then." I still do not see any gap when Christ returns for His saints. In Christ, CarolineS <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Amen CarolineS Despite scripture that tells the truth, they want to believe something else. People are so involved in finding the hidden mystery that they can't hear what is being spoken. All one needs to do is pay attention to what they are reading and what is plainly being said. Denise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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