Why do Christians vary?

[kodischild]

I don't consider myself a fanatic, but I also watch very little tv, never go to a movie, and read mostly Christian books and listen to Christian music. I don't consider my faith weak, but I find the closer to God I grow the harder it is for me to tolerate all the violence, sex, and horrible language that is usually on my tv. I listen to Christian music because I find that songs go around in my head all day, and I want the things wandering in my head to glorify God.

I think this is a 1 COR 10:23 issue. "Everything is permissible"-but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"-but not everything is constructive.

I don't consider most mass media these days to be beneficial or constructive. But I wouldn't tell anyone else that they should agree with me.

Phil 4:8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable-if anything is excellent or praiseworthy-think about such things.

I would encourage limiting tv/movie time because most of what comes our of Hollywood is not pure or lovely.

Finally I know this is Biblical, but GIGO. Garbage in, Garbage out.

Edited October 9, 2005 by kodischild

[NITE OWL]

Everybody has their own comfort zone.

Some people stay away from things of the world. It's not a question of their faith being weak, they just don't like it.

I don't think people should be condemned for watching or not watching a movie.

Questioning someones level of faith is judging...I don't believe it's our place to be doing that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would say that many of these things ARE a matter of strong or weak faith. Paul himself implies this in Rom. 14:2. However, it is true that it is not our place to decide whose faith is at what level, or to look down on people whose faith is weaker or stronger than our own. If someone admits, though, that their faith is weak, or whatever, we have every right to acknowledge that, and to act accordingly by seeing that we don't put a stumbling block in front of them. For instance, if we know that someone struggles with alcoholism or that they are offended by alcohol, we should not drink in front of them, whatever we may believe about it. Here's Paul's example:

"Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. " - Rom. 14:13-15

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree.

[Salt]

Thoughts concerning 'judmentalism'...

Jesus Says in John 12:47-48 (KJV): And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. (48) He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Instead of being 'judgemental' we should present correction out of wisdom and love. It is God's kindness that helps folks to repent. (On occasion, a 'tough love' may be appropriate to correct someone for their own benefit).

Rom 2:4 MKJV Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, and the forbearance and long-suffering, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

Edited October 8, 2005 by Salt

[boblandis]

Mongo,

I'm not sure what you are trying to get at. From your post, the way it is written, it seems that is you against the body of Christian belivers. Or is it a few people pounding you down and frustrating you to no end? Could you be a little more specific on the who and what? This would be an interesting discussion. Go Bro.

[Mongo]

Sorry, but I think its clear. But maybe I need to turn it up and pour out my thoughts and feelings on this...

See, I know people vary in their intensity of faith. I know some who are so strict a Baptist would choke on it (pun intended), and I know some who struggle with sexual issues and other bad habits. It doesn't make them not Christians, but the attitude of many on these forums are that if you are not perfect - not prim, proper and walking the straight and narrow, you have no business here. To me, its wrong.

We're all Christians. I have gone through more personal trials than any Christian I personally know. I do not hate those who have not endured as I have, or seen what I have seen. I do not have the arrogance to think they are inferior to me. I do not think that they are less or more because of their station in life, status in the walk with Jesus, or anything else. Yet I have found severe persecution of fellow Christians where there should be none at all. I find it easier to debate with Aetheists and Muslims, who argue the most mundane and innate because they cannot see the truth, but at least with them there is hope they might hear love and you expect their harshness and hate.

I don't care if you don't agree with me. I don't care if you don't like me. I don't even care if you think I am an evil, paganistic, demon-hugging Christian wannabe. However I do care that you treat all Christians who fail to meet your personal standards of measure with the same contemptuous manner that I can expect from those same Aetheist and Muslims. What in the name of God are you doing? Is there an exam for a new pharisee or something and I didn't get the memo?

I personally know people who were turned off of God and Jesus, were fully walking in the pure spiritual mysticism found in materials like Letters from God because of people with these tunnels of perfection. I watched them pretend to hear your words and merely dismiss you at first chance. I have seen them pity you for the 'Jesus freak' they believed you were. I have talked to them and when they see me, they see someone who they relate to. They can't possibly relate to the self-righteous, fanatical, preaching fire and brimstone folks who seem to enjoy casting doubt upon their fellow Christians. But then they get around me, they are with someone they know was like them. They see I believe and I have a lot of faith and they see me pray for them. They look at me and think, "If Dave can do it, why can't I?" They look at you and they tune you out.

How can you believe you work for God, but that I am the one who will be held severely accountable and found wanting instead of you? How can you say that your view or perspective is the only right one and those who stray from your tunnel vision are lost when we all believe in Christ and we all do our very best to live with Him in our lives? Do you even know that God told us that he knew we would fail, but he loves us anyway?

How can you tell someone that watching TV is wrong? That watching movies is wrong? That watching sporting events is wrong? I'm not a goldfish, I need something more than mere existing and these things I choose.

And moreso, how can you ever hope to show anyone struggling the Word the glory and beauty of our Lord when you can't even agree to disagree amongst you?

You know, I have a lot on my plate to answer for, but this type of behavior won't be one of them. Oh yeah, I'll get nailed on shooting that goat off my car, but telling other Christians they are going to burn in hell just ain't in there.

I beg you, please, to reason this - your walk is vastly different perchance from others. If for you you need the narrow path, then stay upon it and I will pray you do not drift to either side. But if you find that you feel that others are not living up to your expectations, I beg you to step back and think about it - its your expectations.

[Guest sallystrothers]

See, I know people vary in their intensity of faith.  I know some who are so strict a Baptist would choke on it (pun intended), and I know some who struggle with sexual issues and other bad habits.  It doesn't make them not Christians, but the attitude of many on these forums are that if you are not perfect - not prim, proper and walking the straight and narrow, you have no business here.  To me, its wrong. 

..... Yet I have found severe persecution of fellow Christians where there should be none at all.  I find it easier to debate with Aetheists and Muslims, who argue the most mundane and innate because they cannot see the truth, but at least with them there is hope they might hear love and you expect their harshness and hate.

....I personally know people who were turned off of God and Jesus, were fully walking in the pure spiritual mysticism found in materials like

... They can't possibly relate to the self-righteous, fanatical, preaching fire and brimstone folks who seem to enjoy casting doubt upon their fellow Christians.  But then they get around me, they are with someone they know was like them.  They see I believe and I have a lot of faith and they see me pray for them.  They look at me and think, "If Dave can do it, why can't I?"  They look at you and they tune you out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interestingly, I was talking to my ex girlfriend on the phone last night, whom is not a believer. We began to talk about Jesus, God, Christianity and personal beliefs and I asked her what shys her away from God.

She told me she can't stand how all her roomates constantly tear into each other for their beliefs. Her Mormon roomates judge the Christian roomates for drinking, then the Christian roomates judge the mormon roomates for judging them in the first place. Then the new age roomates say their way is the best because there is only peace.

She told me she doesn't want Jesus in her life because she doesn't want to be like the bickering religious people.

The fastest way to turn people away from Jesus is to portray the Christian life as an over righteous, above-the-rest, no pleasure mentality. What person wants to be apart of that?

The fastest way to turn people to Christ is to love them. Show them you are no better then they are. They will realize you have fufillment in life -- a thing many people do not have. Then they will realize if you can do it, they can do it.

[boblandis]

Mongo,

I don't exactly know where all this anger is comming from. I know there is some people here that are hateful and resort to name calling to get their opinions across. I don't however think that they are the majority. People give their opinions from their experiences from their spiritual walk and share them with others. Maybe sometimes their words don't come out right. It is harder for me to transfer what I want to say to the keypad, what I mean to say may not translate the same to you.

Don't take to heart everything people say to heart. You are right, you have the right to walk your spiritual life the way you know how. If you are wrong about anything, God and you will take care of it, not us. We can only suggest.

[ruah brit]

The fastest way to turn people away from Jesus is to portray the Christian life as an over righteous, above-the-rest, no pleasure mentality. What person wants to be apart of that?

This is to bad, that they would not know what they are giving up for the flesh. Whats worse is if someone has been lied to and believes all their life that they can indulge in the flesh and still be numbered with Christ at the end.

Mt 16

24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.

Mr 8

34 When He had called the people to Himself, with His disciples also, He said to them, "Whoever desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.

Mt 10

38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me

Everyone has had the oppotunity but not everyone is saved.

Lu 6

46 "But why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do the things which I say?

Mt 7

21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Mt 7

22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'

23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

Denise

[Guest jusme]

Christians can do whatever they want.

Some things are beneficial, and some are detrimental.

Personally, I avoid a lot of things which others consider ok.

Some things train a person in righteousness, others train a person in the ways of the world.

We need to make a distinction between a persons value as a believer, and their value in the battle at hand.

As a believer, all are equally valuable, as all were purchased in the same manner, and for the same price.

However, in the battle, some are more useful than others.

Some are vessels for honor, suitable for whatever use the master chooses. Others are not so. Many are somewhere in between.

And the question is, what sorts of activities will make me more effective in the kingdom?

The question isn't "Can I get away with this? Is it allowed?".

The question is, "will this make me more or less effective in the kingdom?".

My opinion is that most forms of entertainment make people less effective in the kingdom. Because they are the worlds view of things. Mostly falsehoods. Mockery passed off as humor. Idolatry. Sexual immorality.

But if you want to do that sort of thing, go ahead. Most of my Christian friends do. And I don't think less of them.

The problem is, if you fill your head with that stuff, then that's what it will be full of. And of necessity, it pushes out other things. Things needed for work in the kingdom. Like scripture memory. Bible reading. Fellowship. Prayer. Study. Meditating on the Word. Not entirely. But largely.

And when I talk to those believers, I find that their world view, thinking, and values are much like those of the popular culture around them. Which isn't surprising, because they soak in it all the time.

But that is their right. They are free in Christ to do that, and their value as children of God is the same as it would be if their conduct were otherwise.

I have also found, as I do a certain amount of street evangelism, that the more I get free of the world's influence, the more effective I become. And so while some have said that they need to live like everybody else in order to reach the lost, in my case that is not true. It may be so for them. But it is not so for me. What I have observed is, that when I am right in my faith, and walking with the Lord, his love shines through me, and people see it. I have had people call me over, and want to talk with me, who say things like they could see how I was a sweet man who wouldn't judge them. And I could tell them the hard truth, and they would accept it, because they felt the presence of God, and his love. And that is not me, at all.

Some things are clear from Scripture. The scripture "flee from sexual immorality" (1 corinthians 6:18) puts most modern movies and secular music off limits, and if that doesn't, consider Ephesians 5:3-4: But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints, neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting...

But each of us needs to work out for himself how he will conduct himself today. I can only offer my own observatins and advice. But what people do is up to them.

Last night, I spent the evening in a coffee shop, listening to music from the 60's and 70's performed by a one-man-band. My purpose in being there was to explain the gospel to a man I know. I would avoid that sort of music normally, but it served a purpose. I even sang along with some of it, which I probably shouldn't have, but oh well. I think he moved nearer to saving faith. God knows.

[ruah brit]

But then if you were to actually read the scriptures that I posted you would discover that what you just said is a misnomer applied to the truth of Christ and salvation. Christ is and has set the foundation that can not be moved or changed. It would do everyone well to consider what He said and not what the flesh thinks it should be.

Denise