Soul Sleep

[Old Timer]

Trinity, I will deal with one of the items you mention in your previous post. The others will follow.

You said,

The body falls asleep yes, but we live on. Because when the Bible states that someone "sleeping" referring to death like in Luke 8:52 for example, that does not mean a literal "sleep." The term "Sleeping" is a way to describing death because of deaths appearance of looking like sleeping.

[Trinity]

There is a separation between Body and Soul, We are not our bodies but the peson living within this tent.Ecclesiastes 12:7: "And the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it." I think Ecclesiastes shows the difference between Body and the spiritual realm.

Stephen recognizes that there is life after death, Acts 7:59: "While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." Jesus also stated: "For a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." The spirit does not have flesh and Bone, that means that we are not our bodies, we are Soul and spirit stuck in a body, for our souls do not have flesh and bone. Isaiah 26:9 states, "At night my soul longs for Thee, indeed my spirit within me seeks Thee diligently

Yes Our bodies do sleep, they await the coming of our Lord Jesus but we have fellowship with the Lord before that, Ecclesiastes 12:5 explains it well:

When men are afraid of heights

and of dangers in the streets;

when the almond tree blossoms

and the grasshopper drags himself along

and desire no longer is stirred.

Then man goes to his

eternal home

and mourners go about the streets.

If it is sleep in the grave is our eternal home, then that means we are going to stay in the grave forever, and we are never to be raised up. Soul sleep contradicts this verse.

[Old Timer]

Trinity, we agree on a lot here. Certainly there is a difference between body, soul and spirit.

Christ said on the cross,

Edited October 14, 2005 by Old Timer

[Trinity]

BTW, I edit to mention you failed to address any verse from my previous post. I take you agree with them all?

I have been aswering your Posts everytime you say something i'v been coming back with more stuff to answer your Question, But the problem with this is there is no other way to answer your questions then with Quetions. If you Go back and read your posts then mind you will see i am answering your questions throughout my posts, i make sure of it. They are not all the time visable to a one time read over ut they are all in there.

If you want me to answer them again more spicificly i will

You can read all throughout the bible a thousand times but you will never find a verse in the bible once of someone's soul being resurrected from the dead, because the body is resurrected from physical death see Matthew 27:52 which states, "The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life." The Body sleeps as the verse states yet you will not find in that verse of the soul being resurrected because the soul lives.

Galatians 6:8 states, "The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life." This means that the spirit will continue to live though the body is dead. This verse does not say the body will reap eternal life, it says the spirit.

You like to bring up these verses: Psalm 6:5; Ecclesiastes 9:5 & 10. These passages help support your argument for the "soul sleep" Doctrine. However, if they were referring to a person's soul as well as the body then the "Soul Sleep" doctrine would have a good argument. But! Those verses were speaking of the fate of the body.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 states, "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten.

"...but the dead know nothing..." This is true, The dead body knows nothing for it is no longer inhabited by you anymore, it is an empty shell of who you were. "...they have no further reward..." This is also true, a body itself can not reap rewards, only the spirit within it can.

[Old Timer]

Trinity,

I did not introduce Ecclesiastes into the discussion. You did. I did answer a question about it when you first mentioned it. I particularly avoided it but will discuss any part if you wish to quote from it. However, no matter, more to follow shortly.

[Old Timer]

Trinity, next item. You said,

Ill also like to take David's baby who died for example, II Samuel 12:23:

"But now he is dead-(His Baby), wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me."

You believe this means that David

Edited October 15, 2005 by Old Timer

[Old Timer]

Trinity, I write this to clarify my position and to state the points on which we agree and disagree.

You said,

[Trinity]

Psalm 6:4-5, a Psalm of David. He wrote:

Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake.

For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

This is true

Psalm 6:4-5

"Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake. For in death there is no remembrance of thee-Hebrew word: "Laak" meaning: "for/toward them,": in the grave who shall give thee-Hebrew word: "Laak" meaning: "for/toward them," thanks?"

This verse is not saying the dead cannot give thanks unto God, the verse is saying Man can not give thanks to the dead. Isaiah 18:19 states, "When men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?"

Main Entry: consult:

Middle French or Latin; Middle French consulter, from Latin consultare, frequentative of consulere to deliberate, counsel, consult transitive senses

1 : to have regard to

2 : to consult an individual

3 : to deliberate together

---------------

Remember God is the God of the Living not the dead, scripture to back this up is Luke 20:37:

"But in the account of the bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord 'the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.' He is not the God of the dead,

but of the living, for to him all are alive

."

A quote from Matthew Henry's Commentary concerning this verse:

(v. 37): Moses showed this, as it was shown to Moses at the bush, and he hath shown it to us, when he calleth the Lord, as the Lord calleth himself, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, were then dead as to our world; they had departed out of it many years before, and their bodies were turned into dust in the cave of Machpelah; how then could God say, not I was, but I am the God or Abraham? It is absurd that the living God and Fountain of life should continue related to them as their God, if there were no more of them in being than what lay in that cave, undistinguished from common dust. We must therefore conclude that they were then in being in another world; for God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. Luke here adds, For all live unto him, that is, all who, like them, are true believers; though they are dead, yet they do live; their souls, which return to God who gave them (Eccl. 12:7), live to him as the Father of spirits: and their bodies shall live again at the end of time by the power of God; for he calleth things that are not as though they were, because he is the God that quickens the dead, Rom. 4:17

Psalms 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Another quote from Matthew Henry's Commentary concerning this verse:

The soul indeed lives in a state of separation from the body and is capable of praising God; and the souls of the faithful, after they are delivered from the burdens of the flesh, do praise God, are still praising him; for they go up to the land of perfect light and constant business. But the dead body cannot praise God; death puts an end to our glorifying God in this world of trial and conflict, to all our services in the field; the grave is a land of darkness and silence, where there is no work or device. This they plead with God for deliverance out of the hand of their enemies, "Lord, if they prevail to cut us off, the idols will carry the day, and there will be none to praise thee, to bear thy name, and to bear a testimony against the worshippers of idols.

[Old Timer]

Trinity,

You say, of Psalm 6:4-5

"Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake. For in death there is no remembrance thee-Hebrew word: "Laak" meaning: "for/toward them,": in the grave who shall give thee-Hebrew word: "Laak" meaning: "for/toward them," thanks?"

Checking the Hebrew words of verse 5 in Strong

[Trinity]

I have my own Strongs and dictionary i am using the BHS Interliner Translated. Laak is in it, its Strong's #3807a