Salvation is in your hands, Jesus did his part.

[FreeGrace]

22 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19). If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14).

Another passage you don't understand.  The rich young ruler thought he had been keeping the Law and had eternal life.  He just wanted affirmation from Jesus, the good teacher.  Instead of affirmation, Jesus proved to him that he wasn't even keeping the first commandment.  Jesus did not present the gospel to him.  He wasn't even ready for it.

Do you understand this?

[Bro.Tan]

On 10/11/2023 at 4:39 PM, FreeGrace said:

Another passage you don't understand.  The rich young ruler thought he had been keeping the Law and had eternal life.  He just wanted affirmation from Jesus, the good teacher.  Instead of affirmation, Jesus proved to him that he wasn't even keeping the first commandment.  Jesus did not present the gospel to him.  He wasn't even ready for it.

Do you understand this?

 

     Full Version Good Master Verse, Keeping the Commandments

Let's go back into Matthew 19: 16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Notice the young man says "All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?" The young man didn’t need to ask this question to Jesus, because he was already in a good place with the Lord. This is where the story gets interesting, because if you read the full story which we have to do, to get full understanding. We will see that the commandments Jesus mention wasn't the young man problem, it was something else. 

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. 

So Jesus says if thou be perfect, that means the young was really close to being perfect, but the young had great riches that he couldn't let go, and that goes with what Jesus says in Matthew (22:37) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. (38) This is the first and great commandment. This was very hard for the young man to do. So let's recap the story a little, the young man kept the commandments from his youth up, all most perfect, except one thing Jesus ask him to do, and that's sell all his possession and come follow him. This is about the young man heart, he did right by keeping the law from his youth up and he was bless, but his heart toward the lord was not all the way in place, because he had great possession. 

So let's continue in Matthew 19: 23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. 

This is God’s definition of love and it is perfect in its ways. The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: The commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: The judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: Sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: And in keeping of them there is great reward. (Psalm 19: 7-11)

[Bro.Tan]

On 10/11/2023 at 4:25 PM, Vine Abider said:

How do you see this aligning with the book of Galatians? 

What do you mean, explain, use the Bible please.

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

Full Version Good Master Verse, Keeping the Commandments

So Jesus says if thou be perfect, that means the young was really close to being perfect, but the young had great riches that he couldn't let go

Hardly.  He thought he had been keeping the Law.  But Jesus proved he wasn't even keeping the FIRST ONE.  Which is why he went away sad.  He wasn't even close to being "perfect", as Jesus proved.  He loved his money WAY more than any professed loved of God.  He proved it by his reaction to what Jesus told him to do.

2 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

, and that goes with what Jesus says in Matthew (22:37) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. (38) This is the first and great commandment. This was very hard for the young man to do. So let's recap the story a little, the young man kept the commandments from his youth up, all most perfect, except one thing Jesus ask him to do, and that's sell all his possession and come follow him. This is about the young man heart, he did right by keeping the law from his youth up and he was bless, but his heart toward the lord was not all the way in place, because he had great possession. 

So let's continue in Matthew 19: 23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. 

This is God’s definition of love and it is perfect in its ways. The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: The commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: The judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: Sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: And in keeping of them there is great reward. (Psalm 19: 7-11)

It's clear that you are so dug in with your views you won't be swayed by any truth.  So  I'm just responding to any who read this thread and need to know the truth.  

You do not have the truth.  As I've shown with a number of verses that plainly refute your views.

[Bro.Tan]

On 10/12/2023 at 7:19 PM, FreeGrace said:

Hardly.  He thought he had been keeping the Law.  But Jesus proved he wasn't even keeping the FIRST ONE.  Which is why he went away sad.  He wasn't even close to being "perfect", as Jesus proved.  He loved his money WAY more than any professed loved of God.  He proved it by his reaction to what Jesus told him to do.

It's clear that you are so dug in with your views you won't be swayed by any truth.  So  I'm just responding to any who read this thread and need to know the truth.  

You do not have the truth.  As I've shown with a number of verses that plainly refute your views.

Well, since you mention truth if a person says that they know God, but don’t keep his commandments, lets see what the Lord had specially written for them in (1John 2:3-4) (v.3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. (v.4) he that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 

Let's take another look at those commandments, coming from Paul concerning the unchangeable Royal Law of God. (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. 

And that is what God’s holy commandments are all about; the first four tells you how to love God and the last six tells you how to love your neighbor. If you love your God you will not do any thing to offend him, like having other gods before him. You will do as he says like remember the sabbath day to keep it holy on the seventh day of the week. If you love him you will obey him when he tells you not to eat certain meats etc… And the same goes for your fellow man, if you love your neighbor you wouldn’t steal from him, you wouldn’t kill him, you wouldn’t try and sleep with his wife and so on and so forth. (See exodus 20: 1-17) 

 

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

Well, since you mention truth if a person says that they know God, but don’t keep his commandments, lets see what the Lord had specially written for them in (1John 2:3-4) (v.3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. (v.4) he that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Many believers do not really know God.  They know the gospel and are saved, but have very little understanding of what God's Word says.  One big example is your kind of theology where works are necessary for salvation.

3 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

Let's take another look at those commandments, coming from Paul concerning the unchangeable Royal Law of God. (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

None of this has anything to do with works required for salvation or maintaining it.

3 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

 And that is what God’s holy commandments are all about; the first four tells you how to love God and the last six tells you how to love your neighbor.

Yes, all true, and NONE of it is about salvation.  The purpose of the Law was to prove that all men are sinful and need to be saved, which is by grace, through faith, and NOT of works.

3 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

If you love your God you will not do any thing to offend him, like having other gods before him. You will do as he says like remember the sabbath day to keep it holy on the seventh day of the week. If you love him you will obey him when he tells you not to eat certain meats etc… And the same goes for your fellow man, if you love your neighbor you wouldn’t steal from him, you wouldn’t kill him, you wouldn’t try and sleep with his wife and so on and so forth. (See exodus 20: 1-17) 

I think it is very naive to believe what you are claiming here.  King David certainly loved God and God said in the Bible that David was a man after His own heart, yet David raped a woman and had her husband killed as a mature believer.

Do you believe that you no longer sin?

[Bro.Tan]

On 10/14/2023 at 1:32 PM, FreeGrace said:

Many believers do not really know God.  They know the gospel and are saved, but have very little understanding of what God's Word says.  One big example is your kind of theology where works are necessary for salvation.

None of this has anything to do with works required for salvation or maintaining it.

Yes, all true, and NONE of it is about salvation.  The purpose of the Law was to prove that all men are sinful and need to be saved, which is by grace, through faith, and NOT of works.

I think it is very naive to believe what you are claiming here.  King David certainly loved God and God said in the Bible that David was a man after His own heart, yet David raped a woman and had her husband killed as a mature believer.

Do you believe that you no longer sin?

Jesus brought grace when he came in the flesh, but example of grace was in the days of Noah. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. (Genesis 6:8), And Noah and his family was saved. Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time.

So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)

[FreeGrace]

Just now, Bro.Tan said:

Jesus brought grace when he came in the flesh, but example of grace was in the days of Noah. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. (Genesis 6:8), And Noah and his family was saved. Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

Look carefully at v.25; "through faith in His blood".  That is salvation.

Just now, Bro.Tan said:

So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38).

Peter told this to a specific group of people;  those who had seen the miracles of Jesus but still rejected Him as Messiah.  The Greek word for "repent" means to change the mind.  The people had viewed Jesus as just human, and not God.  They had to repent of that.  It is clear from v.37 that they had realized what they did to their Messiah.  So v.38 is what those people needed to do.  And this was the very beginning of the church age, when things were just getting started.  Paul NEVER told anyone to do that during his 4 missionary journeys.  

Just now, Bro.Tan said:

And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past.

Read Heb 10.  All the phrases "once for all" means exactly that.  Jesus' single sacrifice paid the debt for ALL of mankind.  There are NO verses that specifies that His death was only for sins committed before faith in Christ.  Or show me any that say that.

Just now, Bro.Tan said:

We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death.

You are confused.  All of mankind since Adam have been born spiritually dead, because of his sin.  But the "second death" is about the fact that all unbelievers will be resurrected to appear before the GWT judgment and then cast into the LOF.  Rev 20:11-15.  So the phrase "second death" specifically refers to a second physical death.

Just now, Bro.Tan said:

So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins.

Please don't ignore the FACT that at the MOMENT of faith in Christ they POSSESS eteranl life.  And Jesus SAID recipients of eternal life shall never perish.  So that proves that all sin has been paid for through one sacrifice.

Just now, Bro.Tan said:

And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis.

Jesus really disagrees with you.  From the MOMENT of faith in Christ, the believer possesses eternal life, and shall never perish.  

There are no verses that refute what I am saying.  In fact, Jn 5:24 and 10:28 are the basis for my claims.

Just now, Bro.Tan said:

Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check.

True, but has no bearing on one's salvation.

Just now, Bro.Tan said:

 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)

Read v.18 - And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

This verse is about the fact that Jesus paid for all the sins of everyone.  The point of v.26 is that willful sin will result in God's painful discipline.

[Bro.Tan]

On 10/15/2023 at 3:34 PM, FreeGrace said:

Look carefully at v.25; "through faith in His blood".  That is salvation.

Peter told this to a specific group of people;  those who had seen the miracles of Jesus but still rejected Him as Messiah.  The Greek word for "repent" means to change the mind.  The people had viewed Jesus as just human, and not God.  They had to repent of that.  It is clear from v.37 that they had realized what they did to their Messiah.  So v.38 is what those people needed to do.  And this was the very beginning of the church age, when things were just getting started.  Paul NEVER told anyone to do that during his 4 missionary journeys.  

Read Heb 10.  All the phrases "once for all" means exactly that.  Jesus' single sacrifice paid the debt for ALL of mankind.  There are NO verses that specifies that His death was only for sins committed before faith in Christ.  Or show me any that say that.

You are confused.  All of mankind since Adam have been born spiritually dead, because of his sin.  But the "second death" is about the fact that all unbelievers will be resurrected to appear before the GWT judgment and then cast into the LOF.  Rev 20:11-15.  So the phrase "second death" specifically refers to a second physical death.

Please don't ignore the FACT that at the MOMENT of faith in Christ they POSSESS eteranl life.  And Jesus SAID recipients of eternal life shall never perish.  So that proves that all sin has been paid for through one sacrifice.

Jesus really disagrees with you.  From the MOMENT of faith in Christ, the believer possesses eternal life, and shall never perish.  

There are no verses that refute what I am saying.  In fact, Jn 5:24 and 10:28 are the basis for my claims.

True, but has no bearing on one's salvation.

Read v.18 - And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

This verse is about the fact that Jesus paid for all the sins of everyone.  The point of v.26 is that willful sin will result in God's painful discipline.

Paul says in (Rom. 11:22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

You had better continue in God’s goodness or you will be cut off. This is also the writing of thee Apostle Paul. You must continue to keep God’s laws if you expect to receive salvation. 

[FreeGrace]

12 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

Paul says in (Rom. 11:22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

You had better continue in God’s goodness or you will be cut off. This is also the writing of thee Apostle Paul. You must continue to keep God’s laws if you expect to receive salvation. 

Do you how "cut off" was used in the OT?  What it meant?  Do some research and then get back to me.

Not ANY verse you've quoted supports loss of salvation.

Yet, you've seen the verses that unambiguously teach eternal security.

From the MOMENT one becomes a believer, they POSSESS eternal life (John 5:24) and they SHALL NEVER PERISH (John 10:28).

And you haven't shown otherwise.  I believe what Jesus said.