Salvation is in your hands, Jesus did his part.

[Bro.Tan]

9 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Do you how "cut off" was used in the OT?  What it meant?  Do some research and then get back to me.

Not ANY verse you've quoted supports loss of salvation.

Yet, you've seen the verses that unambiguously teach eternal security.

From the MOMENT one becomes a believer, they POSSESS eternal life (John 5:24) and they SHALL NEVER PERISH (John 10:28).

And you haven't shown otherwise.  I believe what Jesus said.

Once a person become a believer they will start repenting. Surely most Christian loves God the Father Almighty! Surely most Christians love their Savior, Jesus Christ! But does every Christian wants to live by what Jesus says in (Luke:4:4) And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. God's laws are holy and the commandment holy, and just, and good. (Romans:7:12). They are the instructions for the way we should conduct our lives. People trying to side-step the laws of God. Even today many Christian churches do not place as much emphasis on observing God's law as they do on ‘love’. But the fact is, we need both!

Writes the apostle John, (1John: 4:20)  If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?  As we can see, God condemns those who claim to love Him while they hate their brothers. Again in, (1John:3:14) it states We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that we need to seriously take to heart especially in these days when we see communities dividing into factions.

Concerning the observance of the Law we find the following, (1John: 2:4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. How can anyone claim to know God yet teach that it is not necessary to obey His laws?

 

 

 

[FreeGrace]

9 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

Once a person become a believer they will start repenting.

This is a bold statement and without any evidence from Scripture.  In fact, believers are commanded to confess their sins (1 John 1:9), put to death the deeds of the flesh (Rom 8:13) and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Gal 5:16).

There are no verses that any activity of a believer will be guaranteed or automatic.  That is why the Bible has so many commands.  They speak to what believers SHOULD or OUGHT TO DO.

9 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

Writes the apostle John, (1John: 4:20)  If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?  As we can see, God condemns those who claim to love Him while they hate their brothers.

What you SAY is not SAID in 1 Jn 4:20.  No believer CAN BE condemned.

John 3:18 -  Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 -  and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

These 2 verses tell us WHO will be condemned:  those who never believed.  No believer will be condemned.  And there are no verses that say believers will be condemned.

9 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

Again in, (1John:3:14) it states We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that we need to seriously take to heart especially in these days when we see communities dividing into factions.

Concerning the observance of the Law we find the following, (1John: 2:4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. How can anyone claim to know God yet teach that it is not necessary to obey His laws?

John wasn't talking about teachers, but believers who aren't living according to God's commandments.  Such believers are LIARS.  They don't really know God intimately.

This speaks to fellowship.  While they ARE conscious of God, obviously, but they don't have that intimate relationship that is necessary for blessings, eternal reward, and to avoid God's painful discipline (Heb 12:11).  

[Bro.Tan]

On 10/17/2023 at 4:30 PM, FreeGrace said:

This is a bold statement and without any evidence from Scripture.  In fact, believers are commanded to confess their sins (1 John 1:9), put to death the deeds of the flesh (Rom 8:13) and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Gal 5:16).

There are no verses that any activity of a believer will be guaranteed or automatic.  That is why the Bible has so many commands.  They speak to what believers SHOULD or OUGHT TO DO.

What you SAY is not SAID in 1 Jn 4:20.  No believer CAN BE condemned.

John 3:18 -  Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 -  and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

These 2 verses tell us WHO will be condemned:  those who never believed.  No believer will be condemned.  And there are no verses that say believers will be condemned.

John wasn't talking about teachers, but believers who aren't living according to God's commandments.  Such believers are LIARS.  They don't really know God intimately.

This speaks to fellowship.  While they ARE conscious of God, obviously, but they don't have that intimate relationship that is necessary for blessings, eternal reward, and to avoid God's painful discipline (Heb 12:11).  

Jesus say in (Mat.7:21) “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven”. For students to succeed in school, students learn to follow their teachers' instructions, and learn their lessons carefully. But few apply this method when they are dealing with the word of God. Is Jesus your Lord? Then why don’t you do the things he says. (Luke 6:46) “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say”? He told you plainly: (Ex 20:8-10) (v.8) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (v.9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: (v.10) “But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God”. 

Paul say in 2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. Now any Christian in their right mind wouldn’t dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague! They are either uninformed about which day is the Sabbath day of the God of the Bible or they are just following the tradition of religion that was passed down through the family or maybe they have let some preacher give them other excuses for ignoring God’s true day of worship.

It written in the scriptures in (Lev.23:3) “Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, an holy convocation;” He said on the Sabbath day that you should also have an holy convocation, which means holy gathering or simply put, go to church.

Let’s take a look and see what Jesus did when he came in the flesh, And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. (Luke 4:14-16) 

 

[FreeGrace]

41 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

Jesus say in (Mat.7:21) “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven”.

Do you know what "the will of my Father" is?  John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Could you please point out where there is any mention of works here?

41 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

 It written in the scriptures in (Lev.23:3) “Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, an holy convocation;” He said on the Sabbath day that you should also have an holy convocation, which means holy gathering or simply put, go to church.

Could you point out how this relates to your view of working for salvation?

41 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

Let’s take a look and see what Jesus did when he came in the flesh, And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. (Luke 4:14-16) 

The Scriptures you quote have nothing to do with how to be saved.

[Bro.Tan]

22 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Do you know what "the will of my Father" is?  John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Could you please point out where there is any mention of works here?

Could you point out how this relates to your view of working for salvation?

The Scriptures you quote have nothing to do with how to be saved.

Jesus made it clear that the seventh day was made for mankind. (Mark 2:27-28) (v.27) And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: Do we understand that, the Sabbath was made for us, not us for the Sabbath. (v.28) Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath. The Son of man (Jesus) is the Lord God of the seventh day Sabbath (Saturday).

In the scriptures it's written in (Ex.31:16-17) (v.16) Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. (v.17) It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. You see that the Sabbath day is a sign between God and His people forever. Israel was His people then and whoever chooses to obey Him now are His people. God intended for the weekly Sabbath (this word means rest in Hebrew) to be a refreshing blessing for mankind. God knew that human beings would need periodic rest and change from work. But the purpose for keeping God's Sabbath goes far beyond simply resting on that day. 

We need that time each week to have close spiritual contact with God through prayer, bible study and fellowship with other believers. The Sabbath day is a blessing not a curse as ministers of Satan would have you to believe. Yes Satan has his own ministers and they bring you his doctrine. (2 Cor.11: 13-15) For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. (v.14) And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. (v.15) Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

[FreeGrace]

52 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

Jesus made it clear that the seventh day was made for mankind. (Mark 2:27-28) (v.27) And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: Do we understand that, the Sabbath was made for us, not us for the Sabbath. (v.28) Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath. The Son of man (Jesus) is the Lord God of the seventh day Sabbath (Saturday).

In the scriptures it's written in (Ex.31:16-17) (v.16) Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. (v.17) It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. You see that the Sabbath day is a sign between God and His people forever. Israel was His people then and whoever chooses to obey Him now are His people. God intended for the weekly Sabbath (this word means rest in Hebrew) to be a refreshing blessing for mankind. God knew that human beings would need periodic rest and change from work. But the purpose for keeping God's Sabbath goes far beyond simply resting on that day. 

We need that time each week to have close spiritual contact with God through prayer, bible study and fellowship with other believers. The Sabbath day is a blessing not a curse as ministers of Satan would have you to believe. Yes Satan has his own ministers and they bring you his doctrine. (2 Cor.11: 13-15) For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. (v.14) And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. (v.15) Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

You seem to have an amazing way of totally ignoring everything I say and quote from the Bible, and just keep going on about what you think.  

Why can't you at least address what I say and quote?  

[Bro.Tan]

On 10/19/2023 at 6:34 PM, FreeGrace said:

You seem to have an amazing way of totally ignoring everything I say and quote from the Bible, and just keep going on about what you think.  

Why can't you at least address what I say and quote?  

I just preach the uncut word of God according to the Prophets (Old Testament) and the Apostles (New Testament). I observe the Lord’s Sabbath Day, the Lord’s Feast Days (as outlined in Leviticus 23rd chapter), and the Lord’s Dietary Law (as outlined in Leviticus 11th chapter). I teach and observe the Royal Law, which is the Ten Commandments.

I also believe in the resurrection and that Jesus is the King of Israel who will rule over the House of Jacob forever. I believe Jesus is the God of all people and his house “shall be a house of prayer for all people”. (Isaiah 56:7)

In the future it's written in Isaiah 2: 2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Paul says in Romans 3:31   Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

[FreeGrace]

6 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

FreeGrace said: 

You seem to have an amazing way of totally ignoring everything I say and quote from the Bible, and just keep going on about what you think.  

Why can't you at least address what I say and quote?  

I just preach the uncut word of God according to the Prophets (Old Testament) and the Apostles (New Testament).

Au contraire.  I have provided very clear and UNAMBIGUOUS verses that actually refute your views, which shows that what you think is "uncut" is actually being misread and misunderstood.  So that's why you don't address any of my points or quotes.

6 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

I also believe in the resurrection and that Jesus is the King of Israel who will rule over the House of Jacob forever. I believe Jesus is the God of all people and his house “shall be a house of prayer for all people”. (Isaiah 56:7)

Unfortunately, you think salvation is gained and maintained by a certain lifestyle, which is NOT taught in Scripture.

6 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

Paul says in Romans 3:31   Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The Law was given as a guideline for living.  It had NOTHING to do with how to be saved.  The gospel of Jesus that Paul preached came straight from the OT and Paul preached FAITH in Christ for salvation, which proves that your claims are a total misunderstanding of the verses you like to quote.

[Bro.Tan]

On 10/22/2023 at 5:19 PM, FreeGrace said:

Au contraire.  I have provided very clear and UNAMBIGUOUS verses that actually refute your views, which shows that what you think is "uncut" is actually being misread and misunderstood.  So that's why you don't address any of my points or quotes.

Unfortunately, you think salvation is gained and maintained by a certain lifestyle, which is NOT taught in Scripture.

The Law was given as a guideline for living.  It had NOTHING to do with how to be saved.  The gospel of Jesus that Paul preached came straight from the OT and Paul preached FAITH in Christ for salvation, which proves that your claims are a total misunderstanding of the verses you like to quote.

Paul explained this in; (Hebrews 10: (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

The point that is not understood is that we all have sin, but until Jesus came, there was no way of getting out from under your sins. So God institute a Priesthood and laws that went with the priesthood to control the sinning, and so the Lord use animal Sacrificial laws, even though it could not remove sins.

When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments. (v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (20) by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; (21) and having an high priest over the house of God; (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. 

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation). 

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Bro.Tan said:

Paul explained this in; (Hebrews 10: (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

The point that is not understood is that we all have sin, but until Jesus came, there was no way of getting out from under your sins. So God institute a Priesthood and laws that went with the priesthood to control the sinning, and so the Lord use animal Sacrificial laws, even though it could not remove sins.

When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments. (v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (20) by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; (21) and having an high priest over the house of God; (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. 

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation). 

So sad.  In spite of clear and unambiguous verses that prove salvation is guaranteed from the MOMENT one believes in Christ for savlation, you continue to push the idea that salvation can be lost.

And you seem totally unaware of what that really means.  So I'll explain it again.

Those who believe that salvation can be lost, by what a person either DOES or DOESN'T, means that Jesus didn't die for all sin, or that His sacrifice wasn't all that effective and man is responsible for earning his salvation.