Salvation is in your hands, Jesus did his part.

[Bro.Tan]

22 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

So sad.  In spite of clear and unambiguous verses that prove salvation is guaranteed from the MOMENT one believes in Christ for savlation, you continue to push the idea that salvation can be lost.

And you seem totally unaware of what that really means.  So I'll explain it again.

Those who believe that salvation can be lost, by what a person either DOES or DOESN'T, means that Jesus didn't die for all sin, or that His sacrifice wasn't all that effective and man is responsible for earning his salvation.

Last book in the Bible, last two chapters in Revelation 20: 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So let's get more detail about this lake of fire in Isaiah 66: 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Look at that, new earth, new heaven, the Lord still have those Laws in this future and we see the sabbaths days in there as well. Because it's written in (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. But for those who don't want to hear, let's go back to Revelation 21: 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Let us avoid this at all costs, seeking a better reward. Jesus will return real soon And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (Revelation 22:12). 

[FreeGrace]

12 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

FreeGrace said: 

So sad.  In spite of clear and unambiguous verses that prove salvation is guaranteed from the MOMENT one believes in Christ for savlation, you continue to push the idea that salvation can be lost.

And you seem totally unaware of what that really means.  So I'll explain it again.

Those who believe that salvation can be lost, by what a person either DOES or DOESN'T, means that Jesus didn't die for all sin, or that His sacrifice wasn't all that effective and man is responsible for earning his salvation.

Last book in the Bible, last two chapters in Revelation

Well, there you go again.  Just ignore everything I post and keep your head down and forge forward with your own verses that you think support your claims.

12 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

Rev 20: 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

These people weren't cast into the LOF on the basis of works, as you so strongly presume.  v.15 tells us SPECIFICALLY why they will be cast into the LOF.  They never received the free gift of eternal life.  The judgment of their works/deeds is to determine the level of bearableness IN the LOF.  As Jesus taught in Matt 10:15 and 11:22 and 24.  What else could Jesus have been referring to?  Can you at least answer this question?

12 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

So let's get more detail about this lake of fire in Isaiah 66: 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

OK.  Again, the GWT and the LOF for those who NEVER believed and therefore NEVER received the free gift of eternal life.

The Bible tells us plainly who will be condemned (to the LOF).

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 -  and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

2 verses with the SAME WORDS.  Those words mean they have NEVER believed, unless you can prove in context that "have not" doesn't mean never.

12 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

Let us avoid this at all costs, seeking a better reward. Jesus will return real soon And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (Revelation 22:12). 

The ONLY WAY to avoid going to the LOF is to believe in Lord Jesus Christ, trusting in His finished work of dying for your sins on the cross and trusting that He gives the free gift of eternal life to those who DO trust Him for it.  John 5:24 says so.

I am always amazed at your stubborn resistance to the truth.  You still think avoiding the LOF and entering heaven is based on your own lifestyle/behavior.

That is religion, not Christianity.  And you STILL have not proven your case from Scripture, as I have proven mine.  But you just keep ignoring the verses because they don't agree with your claims.

Those who have only believed that salvation includes one's own lifestyle/behaviors is STILL UNSAVED.

Many believers were saved by the gospel of grace, but then got led stray by ignorant pastors/etc and now believe a very FALSE GOSPEL.

You need to really think about this.

It is trusting in Christ's finished work on the cross that saves.  Adding your own works to that negates grace and there is no salvation.

[Bro.Tan]

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Well, there you go again.  Just ignore everything I post and keep your head down and forge forward with your own verses that you think support your claims.

These people weren't cast into the LOF on the basis of works, as you so strongly presume.  v.15 tells us SPECIFICALLY why they will be cast into the LOF.  They never received the free gift of eternal life.  The judgment of their works/deeds is to determine the level of bearableness IN the LOF.  As Jesus taught in Matt 10:15 and 11:22 and 24.  What else could Jesus have been referring to?  Can you at least answer this question?

Jesus says in John 12: 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. That last day is the white throne judgment, and Jesus words are from Genesis to Revelation. 

Let's take a look some words Jesus spoke in Matthew 19 when a man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19). 

Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation (Hebrews 10:26-27) 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Let us avoid this at all costs, seeking a better reward. Jesus will return real soon And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (Revelation 22:12). 

 

 

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

OK.  Again, the GWT and the LOF for those who NEVER believed and therefore NEVER received the free gift of eternal life.

The Bible tells us plainly who will be condemned (to the LOF).

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 -  and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

2 verses with the SAME WORDS.  Those words mean they have NEVER believed, unless you can prove in context that "have not" doesn't mean never.

The ONLY WAY to avoid going to the LOF is to believe in Lord Jesus Christ, trusting in His finished work of dying for your sins on the cross and trusting that He gives the free gift of eternal life to those who DO trust Him for it.  John 5:24 says so.

I am always amazed at your stubborn resistance to the truth.  You still think avoiding the LOF and entering heaven is based on your own lifestyle/behavior.

That is religion, not Christianity.  And you STILL have not proven your case from Scripture, as I have proven mine.  But you just keep ignoring the verses because they don't agree with your claims.

Those who have only believed that salvation includes one's own lifestyle/behaviors is STILL UNSAVED.

Many believers were saved by the gospel of grace, but then got led stray by ignorant pastors/etc and now believe a very FALSE GOSPEL.

You need to really think about this.

It is trusting in Christ's finished work on the cross that saves.  Adding your own works to that negates grace and there is no salvation.

 

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Bro.Tan said:

FreeGrace said: 

Well, there you go again.  Just ignore everything I post and keep your head down and forge forward with your own verses that you think support your claims.

Jesus says in John 12: 48 

Let's take a look some words Jesus spoke in Matthew 19 when a man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19). 

Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation (Hebrews 10:26-27) 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Let us avoid this at all costs, seeking a better reward. Jesus will return real soon And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (Revelation 22:12). 

You just keep doing it.  Are you EVER going to address any of the verses I have shared?  It seems not.

Your comment about Heb 10:26-27 couldn't be more incorrect.  The context for those 2 verses is up in v.18.  Think about it.

[Bro.Tan]

As long as this world have sin in it, then the law have to be in it. Paul says in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin. Also Paul says in (Rom. 5:13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. If there is no law, there is no sin! And this is why we have (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. 

So if a person running around believing there is no law they have to keep, then according to what we just read, you are sinning. And the more you know, the more it becomes willful sin. Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation (Hebrews 10:26-27)  For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Let us avoid this at all costs.

 

[Bro.Tan]

The bible speaks of only one way to get eternal salvation. "One Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.” (Ephesians 4:5,6). The next time someone asks you what faith you are, tell them there's only one faith. The road to eternal salvation starts with knowledge of the Holy Scriptures. God doesn't want us to memorize two or three verses, but instead he left the entire bible so we can learn how to get salvation. If we learn it, believe it and obey it (the bible), salvation will be our reward. For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. (Matthew 16:27)

Before you can start any task you must first know about it and without the key of knowledge we are lost. "...thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make the wise unto salvation..." (II Timothy 4:15). 

However, with all the various doctrines (teachings) it's hard to know which road to take. Many claim that it really doesn't matter saying, "you serve God your way and I'll serve God my way." Since the Lord is the author of eternal salvation we can only obtain it by serving him his way (Hebrews 5:9). Some choose to rely on the wisdom of their pastor by putting his word above God's word. 

Nevertheless, in judgment each one of us will give account for our own salvation. Therefore, we must not let anyone lead us down the wrong path, but should verify all of our teaching with the holy bible. YOUR SALVATION IS AT STAKE! "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12). 

[FreeGrace]

On 10/29/2023 at 4:31 PM, Bro.Tan said:

As long as this world have sin in it, then the law have to be in it.

Of course.  But not for salvation.  For order.

[FreeGrace]

16 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

However, with all the various doctrines (teachings) it's hard to know which road to take.

This shows your confusion.  Yes, there are a lot of doctrines in the Bible.  And ALL the doctrine about salvation are unanimous.  Eph 2:8,9 says we are saved by grace through faith...and not of ourselves.

When a jailer asked Paul what he MUST DO to be saved, Paul said; "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved".

16 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

YOUR SALVATION IS AT STAKE! "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12). 

Except Phil 2:12 is about sanctification, or the present tense of "salvation".  We are saved from the power of sin.  But that is only when the believer is in fellowship with the Lord through confession of sin and is filled with the Spirit.

[Bro.Tan]

On 11/1/2023 at 5:43 PM, FreeGrace said:

This shows your confusion.  Yes, there are a lot of doctrines in the Bible.  And ALL the doctrine about salvation are unanimous.  Eph 2:8,9 says we are saved by grace through faith...and not of ourselves.

When a jailer asked Paul what he MUST DO to be saved, Paul said; "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved".

Except Phil 2:12 is about sanctification, or the present tense of "salvation".  We are saved from the power of sin.  But that is only when the believer is in fellowship with the Lord through confession of sin and is filled with the Spirit.

Paul says in Colossians 1: 23 if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

So what happen if you do not continue in the faith, because you are not grounded and your hope of the gospel is not strong. A person might give up. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). 

[Bro.Tan]

On 11/1/2023 at 5:39 PM, FreeGrace said:

Of course.  But not for salvation.  For order.

Paul says in Romans 6: 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)