Seventieth Week?Seven Year Tribulation

[Guest Benny]

Benny

From what I understand it to be is Dan.9:27 is refering to the Messiah. After Christ was crucified that ended all sacrifices in God's eyes. Then because the gospel was open for all nations abominations would just naturally occur. So at the end of time the Messiah would abides in us would make the abominations desolate through believers who are overcomers.

The man of sin who sits in the temple "New Covenant temple being our body" of God is the old man of sin we use to be. God give us a reasonal amount of time to overcome the things mentioned in Rev. 2& 3 that spiritually apply to everyone who believes in Christ and is a child of His. When we walk in victory we walk in Christ with our life hidden in Him as Christ manifests His life through us.

OK, I understand where your coming from. I don't agree but I understand.

So what do you make of these verses?

1: Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,2: That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4: Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

and this one

15: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

take care

[Brad]

Benny

From what I understand it to be is Dan.9:27 is refering to the Messiah. After Christ was crucified that ended all sacrifices in God's eyes. Then because the gospel was open for all nations abominations would just naturally occur. So at the end of time the Messiah would abides in us would make the abominations desolate through believers who are overcomers.

The man of sin who sits in the temple "New Covenant temple being our body" of God is the old man of sin we use to be. God give us a reasonal amount of time to overcome the things mentioned in Rev. 2& 3 that spiritually apply to everyone who believes in Christ and is a child of His. When we walk in victory we walk in Christ with our life hidden in Him as Christ manifests His life through us.

OK, I understand where your coming from. I don't agree but I understand.

So what do you make of these verses?

1: Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,2: That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4: Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

and this one

15: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

take care

So what do you make of these verses?

First of all we have to consider that these scriptures have had about 2000 years of time to be fulfilled. Most Christians agree that nothing in the scriptures have been fulfilled yet. This is where I disagree so does Blindseeker and a few others at worthy boards. But thats okay we are use to it.

1: Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,2: That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4: Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

These verses were fulfilled in the dark-ages through the line of Popes if nothing else. Many Popes have claimed to be God and there offical title is Vicar of christ. I personally believe that they were a local and literal fulfillment that can be seen. Now if I may the spiritual fulfillment can be taken personally. The coming of the Lord can also be spiritually applied personally. Read in the tread Spiritualized Interpetations for more information about this.

and this one

15: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

This scripture has been fulfilled just as said. 70 AD along with the great tribulation. After the destruction the happened to Israel around 70 AD that was local and literal, abominations continued spiritually and world-wide through the mixture of paganism and Christianity. Blindseeker has writing some exellent stuff about this back on the first page and second posting. The two main things that separate us from agreeing is the seven year theory and Dan.9:27 anti-christ theory.

If the anti-christ theory is true then according to Dan.9:24 70 weeks, if the last week was not fulfilled by Christ within it time frame, then the Messiah has not been anointed yet. Then what was the Spirit ascending on Jesus at His baptism all about. Also according to Dan.9:24 Christ would not have brought in everlasting rightousness yet. Then what about the cross and Jesus taking our place so that we can stand righteus before God.

Alot of error hinges around the last week thrown out into the future when it fits perfectly to the time the Messiah fulfilled what Dan.9:27 says. Before 1930 most of the Christians saw it this way other than the Catholics. The Catholic Church fueled this anti-christ theory and seven year tribulation in order to take the heat off of them from being the beast of Rev.13

[Guest Benny]

Benny

From what I understand it to be is Dan.9:27 is refering to the Messiah. After Christ was crucified that ended all sacrifices in God's eyes. Then because the gospel was open for all nations abominations would just naturally occur. So at the end of time the Messiah would abides in us would make the abominations desolate through believers who are overcomers.

The man of sin who sits in the temple "New Covenant temple being our body" of God is the old man of sin we use to be. God give us a reasonal amount of time to overcome the things mentioned in Rev. 2& 3 that spiritually apply to everyone who believes in Christ and is a child of His. When we walk in victory we walk in Christ with our life hidden in Him as Christ manifests His life through us.

OK, I understand where your coming from. I don't agree but I understand.

So what do you make of these verses?

1: Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,2: That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4: Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

and this one

15: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

take care

So what do you make of these verses?

First of all we have to consider that these scriptures have had about 2000 years of time to be fulfilled. Most Christians agree that nothing in the scriptures have been fulfilled yet. This is where I disagree so does Blindseeker and a few others at worthy boards. But thats okay we are use to it.

1: Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,2: That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4: Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

These verses were fulfilled in the dark-ages through the line of Popes if nothing else. Many Popes have claimed to be God and there offical title is Vicar of christ. I personally believe that they were a local and literal fulfillment that can be seen. Now if I may the spiritual fulfillment can be taken personally. The coming of the Lord can also be spiritually applied personally. Read in the tread Spiritualized Interpetations for more information about this.

and this one

15: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

This scripture has been fulfilled just as said. 70 AD along with the great tribulation. After the destruction the happened to Israel around 70 AD that was local and literal, abominations continued spiritually and world-wide through the mixture of paganism and Christianity. Blindseeker has writing some exellent stuff about this back on the first page and second posting. The two main things that separate us from agreeing is the seven year theory and Dan.9:27 anti-christ theory.

If the anti-christ theory is true then according to Dan.9:24 70 weeks, if the last week was not fulfilled by Christ within it time frame, then the Messiah has not been anointed yet. Then what was the Spirit ascending on Jesus at His baptism all about. Also according to Dan.9:24 Christ would not have brought in everlasting rightousness yet. Then what about the cross and Jesus taking our place so that we can stand righteus before God.

Alot of error hinges around the last week thrown out into the future when it fits perfectly to the time the Messiah fulfilled what Dan.9:27 says. Before 1930 most of the Christians saw it this way other than the Catholics. The Catholic Church fueled this anti-christ theory and seven year tribulation in order to take the heat off of them from being the beast of Rev.13

There are alot of things unexplained in your theory. Just Mathew 24 alone confuses your theory to the point of an uninteligable interpretation. Mathew chapter 24 is in Chronological order. And Jesus fortold the destruction of the Temple at the beginning of the chapter and his anointing was long before that but the reference to the abomination of desolation is almost at the end just before the lords is seen in the clouds. That is enough for me to discount it. If an interpretation contradicts scripture on the same topic then the interpretation is wrong. But that said it takes me to my second point.

How do you get that the beast in Rev. 13 is the Catholic church? It is obvious to anyone that has read Rev. 17 that the Catholic church is the great whore that rides the beast to power. It even says that in the last verses that it is Rome. "That city that reins over the kings of the earth." That was Rome. The only power still eminating from Rome is the Vatican. Rome is also traditionaly called the city of seven hills. The "great whore' is the Roman Catholic church. Besides Rev. 13 says the mark of the beast is the mark of a man. Not some organization. It says that very plainly in Rev. 13. And the Pope and the Catholic churches power gets weaker every dayIt is much, much more than just what you describe as our difference in opinion in Daniel 9:24-27. Your analysis just doesn't fit with any of the scriptures. Nor for that matter does it fit with history. It was not 62 or 69 or 67 or 70 weeks, or for that matter years, that went from Christ's anointing to the destruction of the Temple. Sorry but you and Blindseeker are way off on this one. You have to totally change the meaning of words, and phrases in many different places into a "spiritual meaning" which could mean anything, to make this theory fit. I think you guys need to start from scratch. This just does not fit the scriptures. And it is a real strech of the imagination to get it to make any sense. Sorry, no insult intended, just the way I see it.

take care

PS I do believe many prophecies have been fulfilled about the last days and are continuing to be fulfilled.

take care

[Brad]

How do you get that the beast in Rev. 13 is the Catholic church? It is obvious to anyone that has read Rev. 17 that the Catholic church is the great whore that rides the beast to power. It even says that in the last verses that it is Rome. "That city that reins over the kings of the earth." That was Rome. The only power still eminating from Rome is the Vatican. Rome is also traditionaly called the city of seven hills. The "great whore' is the Roman Catholic church.

Seems to you that you have a pretty good understanding of the literal fulfillment of scripture. When I said the catholic church was the beast I was generalizing to make a point short without getting into great details. Abeast is a nation, the Vatican in a nation etc. As far as Matt.24 being right that another story. Jesus seems to repeat time frames over and over again each time brings out some different things.

When it says immeditately after those days "70 AD" then the Son of Man shall appear. That is where I see a spiritual fulfillment. Sorry that you are blinded by what you are convinced in your our mind. Time to move on and I hope that the truth will be revealed in a way that you will understand.

God Bless you with the mysteries of the Kingdom of God