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BlindSeeker

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  1. First, those who know me are aware that I believe America is "the eighth that goes into destruction." That said, we need to recognize there are three beasts <therion> mentioned in Revelation. However, I'll start with the 2nd beast which rises up out of the sea... Rev 13:1 - And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast <therion> rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon [each of] his heads the name of blasphemy (see Rev 17:3). therion; a dangerous animal:--(venomous, Rev 13:2 And the beast <therion> which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. It appears as the male distinction of “he, him, his” in scripture is assigned to nations and the predominately male rulers thereof. A simple review of Daniel 7 with the succession of beast and horn reveals a pattern of such. It is important to be attentive of the gender distinction, for in 17:3 we are introduced to “a woman” sitting on this beast, the “Mother of Harlot.” Note: all the animal characteristics identify with those in Daniel. Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast <therion>. Notice, it is not “his HEAD,” but rather “ONE of his HEADS as it were wounded…” While it may seem that since the deadly wound was only to “one of his heads,” it would be the entity represented by that particular head that would be the object of the injury, it is stated that “his deadly wound was healed,” implying the beast itself, or the entity represented by the entire image of the beast. So much so, that “all the world wondered after THE BEAST” and not just the one head. For clarity, I believe this was the attacked on Pearl Harbor. The Japanese were provoked through a series of calculated maneuvers into attacking Pearl Harbor to justify America’s entrance into WWII; which brought about the demise of the British Empire (the 7th), gave way for the rebirth of Israel, and catapulted America into a place of global supremacy being the first to develope and use nuclear weapons on another country... kinda like calling down fire from heaven on earth in the sight of men... Rev 13:4 And they [all the world] worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast <therion>: and they worshipped the beast <therion> saying, Who is like unto the beast <therion>? who is able to make war with him? The worshipping of the dragon is by way of their worshipping the beast. Similar to the how that sacrifice unto Idol was sacrifice unto devils. Leviticus 17:7 - And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them throughout their generations. Deuteronomy 32:17 - They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. Psalm 106:37 - Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils 1 Corinthians 10:20 - But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. Revelation 9:20 - And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: 21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts. Revelation 13:5 - And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies (see Rev. 17:3); and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. Interestingly, President Franklin D. Roosevelt suddenly died nearly 3 ½ years after making this famous speech and did “not see when good cometh. I say nearly, because using the Julian calendar it was only 3 years, 4 months, 4 days excluding the end date. However, the bible reveals God calculates time differently, using the both the solar and the lunar cycles. One solar cycle was an approximate biblical year which was adjusted periodically with an extra month approximately 7 times during 19 solar cycles. The biblical months were 29 -30 days based upon the lunar cycle which fluctuates approximately every 29.5 days. Since it was a total of 1,221 days duration from President Roosevelt’s speech to his death we can simply divide that time and see it was a durations of 41.39 biblical months, or 42 months. Perhaps even more interesting is the timing of President Roosevelt’s death actually occurred on the New Moon of April 12, 1945. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God (see Rev 17:3), to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. As this is still the referencing the seven-headed beast, this “he” would be the represented voice of the beast, or empire, upon its rising up out of the sea and standing upon the sand. That is “the person in office” at the time of its entrance into prophetic significance, for as noted above Franklin D. Roosevelt died nearly 3 ½ years after the attack on Pearl Harbor. President Roosevelt’s speech after the Pearl Harbor attack: “Yesterday, December 7, 1941-a date which will live in infamy-the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan... As Commander in Chief of the army and navy I have directed that all measures be taken for our defense. Always will we remember the character of the onslaught against us. No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory... With confidence in our armed forces-with the unbounding determination of our people-we will gain the inevitable triumph – so help us God...” Jeremiah 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. 6 For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. This is still referencing The Eighth Beast Empire being given ability to “make war with the saints, and to overcome them,” and surely as the worldliness of America is at enmity with God likewise it has been a constant assault upon His saints. Though the “overcome them” doubtless is a reference to the literal murder of the saints, it cannot be denied how many have been made lukewarm in America and will be vomited out of the mouth of the Lord. However, the blatant and aggressiveness of iniquity in America has become increasingly intolerant of God, His word and His saints. On June 28, 2006, President Obama publically proclaimed that America was no longer a “just” Christian nation, “Whatever we once were, we are no longer a Christian nation – at least, not just. We are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, and a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers.” Daniel 7:21 - I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. The Greek word translated here “worship” means “to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand; to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore):--worship. But we also know from Jesus stating that the time now is that the true worshippers of God must worship Him in spirit and in truth. That reveals there is a false and carnal worship, a prostrating oneself in homage not out of adoration, but out of selfish motives or even fear, like a dog crouching and timidly licking his master's hand,” as one might do in an attempt to save his life under fear of death. For surely this will come to pass for those who will not bow in submissive servitude before the beast. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. Now, jump down a few verses… Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast <therion> coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon <drakon>. Up out of the earth, not up out of the sea as did the beast. This is a man, like Adam who was made from the dust of the earth. This may also be reference a position or office held by a succession of men, not unlike the Jewish position of “High Priest.” NOTE: This makes a total of three beasts <therion> mentioned in Revelation thus far- 1. The first was the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit; Re 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. Re 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. These two references are likely the same beast, as they are both referred to as ascending out of the bottomless pit. However, it is mentioned in conjunction with the latter reference that it was a scarlet colored beast. Re 17:3 - So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. Remembering that the beast <therion> is a dangerous animal, and the Greek word is used to describe “venomous, wild” beasts, the description can be said to fit that of the red dragon, that old serpent, the devil in Chapter 12. Re 12:3 - And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. Re 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Also see notes on Rev. 17:8 for more on the “bottomless pit.” 2. The second beast is the one that arises up out the sea, of which there is no reference of a scarlet color. Re 13:1 - And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. This second beast shares familiarity with the dragon in that they both have seven heads and ten horns. Plus, as the scripture reveals, it is the great red dragon who promotes this second beast for he “gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.” 3. The third beast, the one just referenced in verse 11, is the who comes up out of the earth. He too is connected to the great red dragon for, as the verse states, “he spake as a dragon.” Now, keeping in mind that the devil stated to Jesus… Mt 4:8 - Again, the devil taketh Him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth Him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto Him, All these things will I give Thee, if Thou wilt fall down and worship me. Jesus did not refute the devils claim that he could “give” these things to Him, this it is clear that the devil, represented as the great red dragon, that old serpent, is the one who is the wicked power behind both beast number 2 and 3. Rev 13:12 And he (that is, the second beast mentioned in this chapter) exerciseth all the power of the first beast <therion> (which was mentioned first in this same chapter) before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast <therion>, whose deadly wound was healed. It is evident that this man is the governing authority over the Eighth Beast Empire. Rev 13:13 And he (the second beast) doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the (the first) beast <therion>; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the (the first) beast <therion>, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. The Beast and The Bottomless Pit- Rev 17:8 The beast <therion> that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. Re 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. Re 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. Re 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. Re 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. Re 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. Re 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. Re 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Deceives the Nations Re 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and [even] Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Re 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Re 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. Well, that's part of why I've have my conclusions and now live in Costa Rica... TheEighthBeast.com
  2. The antichrist wrote the book of Enoch?? Which one?
  3. Yes, the verse is not directly about Israel... But as I stated, "The beast, which is the eighth, that rises out of the sea in Revelation’s chapter 13, is directly connected to Israel, which also “was, and is not, and yet is.” Clearly you see how prophecy is related to Israel in these last days?? Right?
  4. Revelation 17:8 - The beast that thou sawest was, and is [was] not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is [was] not, and yet is. The beast, which is the eighth, that rises out of the sea in Revelation’s chapter 13, is directly connected to Israel, which also “was, and is not, and yet is.” Because the prophecies pertain to “Israel, it's people and the Holy City,” there would be no prophetic manifestation of the beast until after Israel was reborn in 1948. Therefore, because the Ottoman Empire was prior to Israel’s rebirth in 1948 it cannot be the fulfillment of the prophecy... IMHO However, I too am just "a simple country man" and find myself not in the same boat of not "understand[ing] your words." What do you mean "Prophecy is not for private interpretation and the 400-year old belief should have been re-examined on 9/11, Gen 12:3?"
  5. Except Israel which "was... was not" at the time and was waiting to be "yet is" again during the Ottoman Empire. All the beasts empires are directly correlated to Israel, it's people and the Holy City.
  6. Man, I sure didn't mean to kill the thread....
  7. Here are some historic references on the topic – Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, Book 1 - Chapter 3. CONCERNING THE FLOOD; AND AFTER WHAT MANNER NOAH WAS SAVED IN AN ARK, WITH HIS KINDRED, AND AFTERWARDS DWELT IN THE PLAIN OF SHINAR, 1. NOW this posterity of Seth continued to esteem God as the Lord of the universe, and to have an entire regard to virtue, for seven generations; but in process of time they were perverted, and forsook the practices of their forefathers; and did neither pay those honors to God which were appointed them, nor had they any concern to do justice towards men. But for what degree of zeal they had formerly shown for virtue, they now showed by their actions a double degree of wickedness, whereby they made God to be their enemy. For many angels of God accompanied with women, and begat sons that proved unjust, and despisers of all that was good, on account of the confidence they had in their own strength; for the tradition is, that these men did what resembled the acts of those whom the Grecians call giants. But Noah was very uneasy at what they did; and being displeased at their conduct, persuaded them to change their dispositions and their acts for the better: but seeing they did not yield to him, but were slaves to their wicked pleasures, he was afraid they would kill him, together with his wife and children, and those they had married; so he departed out of that land. FROM: The Targum of Jonathan Ben Uzziel On the Pentateuch With The Fragments of the Jerusalem Targum From the Chaldee VI. And it was when the sons of men began to multiply upon the face of the earth, and fair daughters were born to them; and the sons of the great saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and painted, and curled, walking with revelation of the flesh, and with imaginations of wickedness; that they took them wives of all who pleased them. And the Lord said by His Word, All the generations of the wicked which are to arise shall not be purged after the order of the judgments of the generation of the deluge, which shall be destroyed and exterminated from the midst of the world. Have I not imparted My Holy Spirit to them, (or, placed My Holy Spirit in them,) that they may work good works? And, behold, their works are wicked. Behold, I will give them a prolongment of a hundred and twenty years, that they may work repentance, and not perish. [JERUSALEM. And the Word of the Lord said, The generations which are to arise shall not be judged after (the manner of) the generation of the deluge, (which is) to be destroyed, and exterminated, and finally blotted out. Have I not imparted My Spirit to the sons of men, because they are flesh, that they may work good works? But they do works of evil. Behold, I have given them a prolongment of a hundred and twenty years, that they may work repentance; but they have not done it.] Schamchazai and Uzziel, who fell from heaven, were on the earth in those days; and also, after the sons of the Great had gone in with the daughters of men, they bare to them: and these are they who are called men who are of the world, men of names. And the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and all the imagery of the thought of his heart was only evil every day. And it repented the Lord in His Word that He had made man upon the earth; and He passed judgment upon them by His Word. Book of Enoch [Chapter 6] - 1 And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto 2 them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men 3 and beget us children.' And Semjaza, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not 4 indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations 5 not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' Then sware they all together and bound themselves 6 by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn 7 and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And these are the names of their leaders: Samlazaz, their leader, Araklba, Rameel, Kokablel, Tamlel, Ramlel, Danel, Ezeqeel, Baraqijal, 8 Asael, Armaros, Batarel, Ananel, Zaq1el, Samsapeel, Satarel, Turel, Jomjael, Sariel. These are their chiefs of tens. [Chapter 7] - 1 And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms 2 and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. And they 3 became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: Who consumed 4 all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against 5 them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and 6 fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones. As to Shilo's question, " Could that possibly include genetically mutated people via the mark of the beast, as well?" Well, I certainly wouldn't exclude the possibility. For if fallen angel technology is used to alter people's DNA, are we really believe that they continue to share the "image" of God? Or that they are acceptable to God as temples when they have now genetically mutilated beings or hybrids?
  8. The seven heads represent seven monarchical kingdoms of which one, the sixth, was indeed Rome. However, to say "the mountains do not refer to anything else" apart from the hills of Rome is but an opinion to which you are certainly at liberity to hold. But to be open and honest with you, my opinion is that you are wrong. I am one who is endeavoring to be a faithful disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ, who seeks to obey all His words, as well as the admonition of His servant the Apostle Paul to study to show myself approved by striving to rightly dividing the word of truth, proving all things in the light of scripture as well as history, while prayerfully watching of the unfolding of current world events in their relationship to the nation of Israel. My identity to you only needs be affiliated with my personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ, as there is no beneficial need for you to know me through any other affiliation, be it of the flesh or religious system, for such will only inadvertently prejudice you in your perception of me and my personal convictions. However, as a courtesy I will clearly state that I am not part of the apostate system of Catholicism.
  9. So, what you basically are saying is the "seven mountains' represent both civil and religious empires as well as the literal "hills" of Rome? Though spoken like a true protestant, I disagree with such speculation because such a notion requires the forcing of a monarch position onto that of the papacy, something the Holy Spirit would not do; yet it must be done in order for you to force “Ecclesiastical Rome” or Catholicism into the position of the seventh empire which has a “king.” Which, if you are going to equally assert that the seven mountains can and must be also literal hills/mountains, then the monarchic position of kings must stay equally literal. However, since it is the angel of the Lord who explains that the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and that there is also historic succession of seven kings, since “five are fallen, one is, and the other is not yet come,” he has the authority to tell us what the imagery of the seven heads represents, seven mountains which prophetically represents monarchical empires, each with their respective king; one dominant kingdom at a time until it is replaced by the rising up of another. Jeremiah 1:10 - See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant. Jeremiah 18:7 - At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; Jeremiah 51:25 - Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain. The prophetic imagery of this singular woman just like any of us, can only sit upon one thing at a time. So in the vision she sits upon this single beast with seven heads which are representative of time, past, present and the future. For this cause the angel says “Wherefore did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns… here is the mind which hath wisdom, the seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sits and there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.” This woman representative of apostate mystery religion, which perhaps was made more prevalent during the zenith of the Babylonian Empire than she was before and perchance is thus called “Mystery, Babylon.” She has sat exercising her rebellious Jezebelian religious spirit of manipulation through its demonic influence over upon each of these mountains/empires, one at a time throughout history, to coerce each of them into open opposition and/or persecution of Israel and the righteous of God.
  10. The angel never says the 8th is a monarchial kingdom, i.e. under the rule of a king. It simple states “the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.” So whether that signifies the eighth empire, (for that is what “mountains’ prophetically represent in scriptures,) is a conglomeration of the whole or sum of the seven, or simply a direct result of the seventh, we cannot tell. Here are just a few scriptures to confirm what is being prophetically implied through the angel’s use of the word “mountain” in his interpretation of the seven heads to John. Why people want to make them mere“hills” is beyond me… Jeremiah 51:24 - And I will render unto Babylon and to all the inhabitants of Chaldea all their evil that they have done in Zion in your sight, saith the LORD. 25 Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain. Zechariah 4:7 - Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it. Daniel 2:35 - Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. Daniel 2:45 - Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure. Amos 4:1 - Hear this word, ye kine of Bashan, that are in the mountain of Samaria, which oppress the poor, which crush the needy, which say to their masters, Bring, and let us drink. Amos 6:1 - Woe to them that are at ease in Zion, and trust in the mountain of Samaria, which are named chief of the nations, to whom the house of Israel came! As we can tell from the scriptures above, all these mountains have had a direct correlation with Israel, which like the beast “was, is not, yet is” today. That is not to say the beast, or the eighth is Israel, but rather the succession of empires noted as the seven leading up to the eighth are historically connected directly to Israel. So when Israel was destroyed as a functioning empire with geographical boundaries recognized by other nations and “was not,” the beast also “was not.” And who can ignore the fact that when Israel was rebirth in her own land that was then called Palestine; which was under the United Kingdom’s sovereignty and King George VI only live 4 short years longer?
  11. OK Douggg, I had some time tonight, so let's see if I can't walk you through it all. Even though I know you don't want to read it all again and would like me just to tweet it here in 140 characters of less for you, but it really is a bit beyond that. So if you really want to understand, then follow along and I will take you through it piece by piece. 1. All the above is to show the reader that the way Paul stated verses 5 and 6 was intentionally vague and distinctly different from Paul’s normal manner of addressing such things in his other epistles. 2. This is to alert the reader that due to the vagueness of verses 5 and 6, it has given way in the last 100+ years to numerous theories that depart from what nearly a universal Protestant understanding of the subject matter of verses 7 and 8. Why? 3. The above part of the article is inform the reader where the popular theology of today came from, the one that most “Protestant Christians” hold to today; and to show how the church has abandoned the perspective of earlier Protestant church fathers for that birth within the very ranks of that which they were protesting. Do you find that odd? 4. This above part is to remind the reader that the early church fathers recognized that the Apostle John spoke of a “spirit of antichrist” as well as “many antichrists.” Not just one antichrist. I find it interesting that almost everyone holding to this contemporary and popular endtime antichrist world figure is either ignorant or ignores the fact that John, who coined the phrase “antichristos,” or “antichrist,” never used the phrase in the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Ever wondered why that is Douggg? Can you think of a good answer for why the Holy Spirit who inspired him with the word in his 1st epistle didn't lead him to use it in the Book of Revelation? 5. This is just a brief summary of the “two most popular theories” being held to by modern Christians. Pretty clear this one… 6. The above is to remind the reader, that even though Paul was given visions and revelations, he nevertheless primarily preached from the scriptures. Therefore, what he told the Thessalonians when he was with them would have had scriptural foundation, like the Book of Daniel... 7. The above is just further proof that not only did Paul always preach Christ, he taught the church concerning the things that were soon to come to past, and what laid ahead for the church in the ages to come, as well as the judgement upon Israel and up to the last trump and the resurrection of the dead. And he did so from the OT scriptures which he assured us are able to make us wise unto the salvation we have in Christ Jesus. Plus, in Paul’s exhortation to us he tells us that we too must prove everything scripturally if we are to avoid being led astray or succumb to unfounded deductions that have no solid scriptural/historical bases. 8. The above clearly shows how Paul's teaching the Thessalonians sound doctrine was evident by their becoming sound in the faith and abounding in their “work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope.” For correctly preaching the truth changes people and makes them partakers of the divine nature; and doesn’t merely make them “theologians.” 9. The part above reveals the historic scriptural setting in both Philippi and Thessalonica from which Paul and Silas were obligated to flee for their lives because of the hostility, and nature of the seriousness charges being laid against them. For these things may very well have profund bearing on why Paul was so vague and careful about what he wrote concerning those things he had clearly stated to them in person. 10. Again, showing the concern of the brethren, as well as things we have scriptural leeway to conclude Paul would have been preaching to the Thessalonians as a "word in due season," Prophetic words which would have been in perfect harmony with the very words of Jesus Christ spoke concerning Israel and that generation. 11. Simply further verification Paul ministered from extensiveely the scripture which also foretold the things spoken by Jesus Christ; and therefore by the authority of the scriptures Paul too warned the Jews that destruction was soon coming to Israel, Jerusalem, and the temple. 12. Plus, as God judge Babylon and brought that empire to its end, so to could/would have Paul preached from scripture the fall of Rome after the destruction of the nation of Israel. 13. The above was just a summary of the things covered already… Still with me Douggg? (Not that I expect you to be agreeing, just following.) 14. As history bears record, the above shows how the fall of Rome (the empire) gave way to the rise of Roman Catholicism and the rise of the “man of sin, son of perdition.” 15. Just a simple review with some text added in square brackets indicating my insertion of thought to help the reader see the plausible intent of Paul in the passage being discussed in this thread. However Douggg, even though I stated “In this light, it should be easy to see why it was wisdom for Paul to be elusive and not to write in his Epistle to the Thessalonians that Rome was going to have to fall first in order to make way for this great apostasy and the son of perdition,” I do understand many people today have a very difficult time following a multipoint, developing line of thought to its conclusion. Which, just once more, is basically that had such Paul's epistle been intercepted and delivered into the hands of Romans with him clearly stating Rome (the empire) must fall before the rise of the man of sin/son of perdition," well, it would have been all over for Paul. For he would have been charged with treason and therefore killed for preaching and conspiring the fall of Rome (the empire)... Got it?
  12. You don't know what Rome was?
  13. Yes, it is on my website, but it was edited some for before posting here. I had more scriptures with it which are only alluded to here. To address scriptural reason as to why Paul would have been intentionaly vague in his mentioning this subject in his open epistle to the Thessalonians. What it was that "letteth," or however whatever translation whoever is using states it...
  14. Well, I am not sure what to tell you... It has been written for over a year now and has been read and easily understood by many with whom I have spoken who understood the progression of thought with no difficulty and agreed.
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