Why radioactive decay dates beyond around 4300 years are invalid

[RV_Wizard]

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

The Bible says that mans life span is 75 years, and in another place says 120 years.  (but recently someone broke that limit).   

Not only in another place, but in another time.  Perhaps if you read the book you would realize that.  Long lifespans pre-dated the flood.  Subsequently, the environment change and so did lifespans.  In 1891 the average life expectancy was 61 years.  Now in industrialized nations it's close to 80 years.  Averages are not limitations nor promises.  The Bible never says "No person shall live beyond 120 years."

If you actually read the Bible, you would know that not everyone who ever lived is mentioned.  However, those born previous to the flood who are mentioned lived a very long time.  There is nothing stating whether it was common or uncommon, but considering that longevity was ascribed to all those recorded who were not killed, there is no reason whatever to believe that these long lifespans were abnormal.

[The Barbarian]

The Bible says that mans life span is 75 years, and in another place says 120 years.  (but recently someone broke that limit).   

Your new doctrine was that most humans once lived hundreds of years, which (as you admitted) God's word denies.    If God let some humans live much longer, that doesn't mean He let everyone live that  long.

Your story is just an addition to his word you inserted to make it more acceptable to you.

26 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

Not only in another place, but in another time.  Perhaps if you read the book you would realize that.  Long lifespans pre-dated the flood. 

That's your addition to scripture.   But you have no evidence for it.    In fact, you just cited evidence against it.

27 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

In 1891 the average life expectancy was 61 years. 

That was the problem with agriculture.   Herding or hunting and gathering tended to allow longer lives.   

28 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

The Bible never says "No person shall live beyond 120 years."

It clearly didn't, since at least one person recently lived longer than that.   And of course, God lengthened the lives of a number of patriarchs.

Nevertheless, your admission shows that lifetimes were not intrinsically different in earlier times.

31 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

There is nothing stating whether it was common or uncommon

But that didn't stop you from assuming that it was, in spite of God's word to the contrary.

 

[The Barbarian]

On 4/26/2024 at 4:02 PM, Inquiring Mind said:

IMO, Psalm 90:10 reads more like a general rule than a hard & fast one.

Well, of course.   Seventy years is a reasonable average lifetime.    Which doesn't mean that God couldn't lengthen the lives of specific humans for whatever purpose He had in mind.

 

[RV_Wizard]

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

  In fact, you just cited evidence against it.

WOW!!!  There is a problem with your mind.  How could ANYONE read this chart and believe that it doesn't show long ages.

I'm sorry, but you need therapy.

[The Barbarian]

That's your addition to scripture.   But you have no evidence for it.    In fact, you just cited evidence against it:

34 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

 In Genesis 6:3, God shortened the AVERAGE lifespan of man.  And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

 And as you know, someone recently lived longer than that.  So clearly ages haven't changed very much.

35 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

WOW!!!  There is a problem with your mind.

It's not just God's word that you reject.    Evidence from ancient graves shows that people didn't live extremely long lives.   Would you like to learn how we know?

36 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

How could ANYONE read this chart and believe that it doesn't show long ages.

If God chose to lengthen the lives of patriarchs,that doesn't mean that everyone had a longer lifespan.

45 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

I'm sorry, but you need therapy.

Maybe one of us does.

[RV_Wizard]

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

 And as you know, someone recently lived longer than that.  So clearly ages haven't changed very much.

Av·er·age noun  A number expressing the central or typical value in a set of data, in particular the mode, median, or (most commonly) the mean, which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number.

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Evidence from ancient graves shows that people didn't live extremely long lives.

Next you'll tell us that you have personally seen the grave of Adam.

Is there anything in the Bible, however obscure, with which you agree?

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

If God chose to lengthen the lives of patriarchs,that doesn't mean that everyone had a longer lifespan.

Please explain for us how you arrived at the conclusion of "everyone."  Nobody suggested that.  The evidence clearly shows that prior to the flood people could live a long lifespan.  Surely, not everyone did.  However, those named lived for several centuries.  Such lifespans were not heralded as miracles.

[The Barbarian]

2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Av·er·age noun  A number expressing the central or typical value in a set of data, in particular the mode, median, or (most commonly) the mean, which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number.

Which is how we know that human lifetimes haven't changed significantly over tens of thousands of years.   Evidence from ancient graves shows that people didn't live extremely long lives.

2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Next you'll tell us that you have personally seen the grave of Adam.

If you have to invent silly ideas and insist that I believe them, that's a pretty good clue you're out of excuses.   Is there anything in the Bible, however obscure, with which you agree with it as it is?

2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

The evidence clearly shows that prior to the flood people could live a long lifespan. 

Show us that.   Hint: God lengthening the lifetime of a few patriarchs does not overrule His word that human lifetimes are about a century long.

You're not satisfied with his word, so you've invented your own doctrines.

2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Such lifespans were not heralded as miracles.

By God's own testimony, they are much longer than the lifetime God set for humans.  

 

Edited May 5 by The Barbarian

[RV_Wizard]

21 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

Which is how we know that human lifetimes haven't changed significantly over tens of thousands of years.  

You 'know" more things that aren't true than any other person I've encountered on the internet.

The remarkable picture from these lifespans only emerges when plotting them on a graph. After all, a picture is worth a thousand words. Only then do we see that the average lifespan of these patriarchs who lived before the Flood lived an average of 912 years. After the Flood, their lifespans began systematically declining, following what’s known by biologists as a “biological decay curve.” A mythical list of ages would be unlikely to take such a predictable, exponentially declining curve. Noah, who was the 10th from Adam, lived through the Flood and died at age 950. Noah’s son Shem lived 600 years; his grandson 438 years. Five generations past Noah, lifespans decline to the 200s. Abraham, who was 10 generations after Noah, lived to be 175. We also have Jacob, when he was 130 years old, stating to Pharaoh that he had not lived as long as his ancestors. Jacob later died at 147. Several generations later we have Moses, living to be only 120.

What’s going with these lifespans? They systematically decline along a familiar-looking pattern that statisticians call an “exponential power curve.” Plotting their ages does not reveal a straight-line slope, but a curved one. They don’t suddenly bottom out right after the Flood, nor do they decline evenly. Rather, the lifespans decline along a nonlinear, exponential curve over time. And this curve literally passes every test for statistical significance. Whatever is going on here is not some chance occurrence. Their pattern breaks every possibility of being some fluke.  source

Of course, you have to deny this because the flood is just one of many, many things in the Bible you deny.

30 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

God lengthening the lifetime of a few patriarchs does not overrule His word that human lifetimes are about a century long.

Show me where in the Bible is says that those named in Genesis 5 were the only ones to live long lifespans.  You can't, because it's not there.

Many people understand Genesis 6:3 to be a 120-year age limit on humanity, “Then the Lord said, ‘My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years.’” However, Genesis chapter 11 records several people living past the age of 120. As a result, some interpret Genesis 6:3 to mean that, as a general rule, people will no longer live past 120 years of age. After the flood, the life spans began to shrink dramatically (compare Genesis 5 with Genesis 11) and eventually shrank so that very few people lived to be 120 years old. By the time of the Exodus, almost no one survived to that age. Moses and Aaron lived that long (Numbers 33:39; Deuteronomy 34:7), and Jehoiada the priest lived to 130 (2 Chronicles 24:15). So, 120 years was not a “hard” boundary; rather, it was near the age that an especially healthy and fortunate person could expect to survive.
Several hundred years after the flood, Moses declared, “The length of our days is seventy years—or eighty, if we have the strength; yet their span is but trouble and sorrow, for they quickly pass, and we fly away” (Psalm 90:10). Neither Genesis 6:3 nor Psalm 90:10 are God-ordained age limits for humanity.  source

36 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

By God's own testimony, they are much longer than the lifetime God set for humans.  

Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that God set a hard limit on the life expectancy of people.  However, God DID say "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it."  Since you absolutely reject God's testimony with the Fourth Commandment, you are the last person on earth I would trust to comment on God's testimony.

[The Barbarian]

4 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

You 'know" more things that aren't true than any other person I've encountered on the internet.

You're constantly getting blindsided by facts, because I bother to look things up in science journals.    And yes, knowing what one is talking about, is a huge advantage. 

7 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

After the Flood, their lifespans began systematically declining, following what’s known by biologists as a “biological decay curve.”

Wow, that's an old one.    I remember some guy from the ICR saw a curve in biology book and found that if he messed with the X axis a bit, it would fit the ages of patriarchs.    I pointed out to him that those ages were limited to patriarchs and prominent people in the Bible, and that God specifically stated human lifetimes were much shorter.   Three score and seven or 120, depending on interpretations.

So it went away, at least at that time.   

30 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that God set a hard limit on the life expectancy of people. 

One place He says three score and ten.   Another he says 120.    Why won't you just believe Him?

31 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

However, God DID say "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it."

As you learned, the "days" of creation are not literal days.   The text itself says they are not.   Why won't you just believe Him?   Since you absolutely reject God's testimony in Genesis, you're constantly getting caught in your own contradictions.

 

 

[RV_Wizard]

27 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

I bother to look things up in science journals

Science journals are useless when discussing Genesis, or any other aspect of the Bible.

29 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

I pointed out to him that those ages were limited to patriarchs and prominent people in the Bible,

You have no evidence whatever to that effect.

30 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

One place He says three score and ten.   Another he says 120.   

In neither those places nor any other did God say that anyone was promised to live that long or could not live longer. 

31 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

the "days" of creation are not literal days.   The text itself says they are not. 

The only person you ever convinced with that lie is yourself.