Why do some have it all...

[HisWordIsSufficient]

[quote]Health and wealth and so forth should not be used as a means to guage one's faith, and one's faith should not be dependent on the state of one's health or on someone's bank account.

Edited November 8, 2005 by Bluebird1

[apothanein kerdos]

I totally agree with that. like i said. We can overcome. That includes overcoming bad health or a less than fortunate bank account.

Then what of Jesus and the disicples? Jesus, Peter, and Paul were all admittedly poor, is it because they lacked faith? Likewise Paul's thorn in the flesh, when looked at in original context, is a physical ailment (most likely with the eyes) that God refused to heal. Let us also not forget that death is a part of life, who are we to judge how that death comes about? Do we die because we lack faith or is it because we live in a fallen world? The fact is, we die because we live in a fallen world. Thus I fail to see the logic behind saying a person that dies from cancer lacked faith and a person that died of natural causes (i.e. old age) didn't.

Im sorry to hear your mother did not recieve the healing she prayed for until she went to be with the Lord. I am not in a position to judge her faith, i did not know her and its not our job to judge anyway. Its God's. But the only reason i can think maybe why in this case, maybe she didnt know how to pray for it?

This makes God extremely abusive and abrasive. In fact, it makes Him evil. You are asserting that God would reject a person's faith simply because they did not know how to pray correctly? None of those that were healed ever said a prayer and all approached Jesus in different manners, there is no proper way to pray for faith and healing. All there is, is to pray for God's Will.

Her mother's death, while tragic, was done for the glory of God. How so? For one, her mother was an amazing Christian and showed more of Christ in her last hours than most people do in a lifetime. Furthermore, and I won't go into detail, it left Tess to where she could practically only rely upon God. The event, though tragic, left Tess to be one of the most mature, spiritually wise, and Godly young ladies many have ever met. People die from cancer, AIDS, disease, car accidents, etc not because they lack faith, but because God has declared it their time to go. What you are teaching is not only wrong, it's heresy of the most evil form.

So many dear Christians that are faithful and love the Lord and are truly followers of Christ, have no idea of the promises of Gods word. They hear that he heals, and so they believe it and hope. But dont read in there bibles further to learn how to recieve there healing. its a very very lengthy explanation, (what im talking about) and i dont want to offend by bringing a rushed explanation. So ill leave it at that, but if you dont know what i mean, id love to talk to you about it.

Please, don't offer to spread your garbage theology that kills and is nothing more than Satanic lingo. What you believe is Americanized Christianity at its worst. You ignore the plight of fellow believers around the world and how 95% of Christians worldwide live in poverty. Is it because they lack faith too? Christ heals but not everyone. Sometimes the healing is the grace He gives us to get through the difficult time, such as Paul.

On the contrary, in some cases its actually easier to give up and persevere with the hardship and pain, then build the faith to recieve. like you said, its easy to have faith when alls peachy. (if you refering to me, trust me. Ive been thru very unpleasant things, and with God, recieved the faith to get thru it.) It depends on the circumstance i guess. Someone still clinging to God when there life falls apart? A sensible Christian.

I guess if their life falls apart then they don't have faith eh?

This stupid "name it claim it" theology is Satanic in nature and void of any intelligent thought...much less spiritual or Biblical knowledge.

[growing]

Why do some people have it all and others not? And does it mean if someone has little here on Earth, will have more in Heaven? Just don't understand. Am I wrong to want things here on Earth, and what does it really mean, Ask and ye shall receive... and he will give us the desires of our heart.

I have two thoughts to share on this topic. First of all, I heard a sermon a couple of years ago about "looking at your own bowl." The idea was that God has given us a lot and we're only unhappy when we look around at the things others have (the pastor used the analogy of giving his kids bowls of ice cream. They were both thrilled until one looked in the other's bowl and saw that he had more). No matter what we have or don't have, we have to remember that God has given it all to us and He's given us the greatest gift of all, His Son. It's hard to do, but we need to look at the blessings we do have, not the things that we don't. The more we practice being the thankful, the easier it will be and we can also ask for help. We don't have the strength to stand up to the pressures and materialism and desires of the world without God's help.

Finally, I heard a theory (there's probably a better term for it, but that's the basic idea) that every generation has had it's blindness to God's will. For example, we all know that God doesn't approve of having more than one wife, but many of the men in the Old Testament did and it didn't seem to occur to them that it was wrong, it was just an accepted part of their culture. Perhaps our blindness is materialism. We just assume that it's our right to have things, whether it's truly stuff: cars, clothes, whatever or more intangible things: a spouse, children, education, etc. It's built into our culture. Jesus didn't have a home, and income or even the promise of food everyday, but He served God and He always had what He needed.

I personally don't have the strength to look at the things of the world and not desire them, but I'm practicing and it is getting easier and I am happier with the things that I do have. I've got a long ways to go, but with God's help I can learn to serve Him more perfectly, more completely without letting the stuff of the world get in my way.

[HisWordIsSufficient]

I totally agree with that. like i said. We can overcome. That includes overcoming bad health or a less than fortunate bank account.

Then what of Jesus and the disicples? Jesus, Peter, and Paul were all admittedly poor, is it because they lacked faith? Likewise Paul's thorn in the flesh, when looked at in original context, is a physical ailment (most likely with the eyes) that God refused to heal. Let us also not forget that death is a part of life, who are we to judge how that death comes about? Do we die because we lack faith or is it because we live in a fallen world? The fact is, we die because we live in a fallen world. Thus I fail to see the logic behind saying a person that dies from cancer lacked faith and a person that died of natural causes (i.e. old age) didn't.

Im sorry to hear your mother did not recieve the healing she prayed for until she went to be with the Lord. I am not in a position to judge her faith, i did not know her and its not our job to judge anyway. Its God's. But the only reason i can think maybe why in this case, maybe she didnt know how to pray for it?

This makes God extremely abusive and abrasive. In fact, it makes Him evil. You are asserting that God would reject a person's faith simply because they did not know how to pray correctly? None of those that were healed ever said a prayer and all approached Jesus in different manners, there is no proper way to pray for faith and healing. All there is, is to pray for God's Will.

Her mother's death, while tragic, was done for the glory of God. How so? For one, her mother was an amazing Christian and showed more of Christ in her last hours than most people do in a lifetime. Furthermore, and I won't go into detail, it left Tess to where she could practically only rely upon God. The event, though tragic, left Tess to be one of the most mature, spiritually wise, and Godly young ladies many have ever met. People die from cancer, AIDS, disease, car accidents, etc not because they lack faith, but because God has declared it their time to go. What you are teaching is not only wrong, it's heresy of the most evil form.

So many dear Christians that are faithful and love the Lord and are truly followers of Christ, have no idea of the promises of Gods word. They hear that he heals, and so they believe it and hope. But dont read in there bibles further to learn how to recieve there healing. its a very very lengthy explanation, (what im talking about) and i dont want to offend by bringing a rushed explanation. So ill leave it at that, but if you dont know what i mean, id love to talk to you about it.

Please, don't offer to spread your garbage theology that kills and is nothing more than Satanic lingo. What you believe is Americanized Christianity at its worst. You ignore the plight of fellow believers around the world and how 95% of Christians worldwide live in poverty. Is it because they lack faith too? Christ heals but not everyone. Sometimes the healing is the grace He gives us to get through the difficult time, such as Paul.

On the contrary, in some cases its actually easier to give up and persevere with the hardship and pain, then build the faith to recieve. like you said, its easy to have faith when alls peachy. (if you refering to me, trust me. Ive been thru very unpleasant things, and with God, recieved the faith to get thru it.) It depends on the circumstance i guess. Someone still clinging to God when there life falls apart? A sensible Christian.

I guess if their life falls apart then they don't have faith eh?

This stupid "name it claim it" theology is Satanic in nature and void of any intelligent thought...much less spiritual or Biblical knowledge.

How can you call something biblical, satanic? theres scripture throughout the bible continuously that backs up "ask and it will be given" "in Jesus name" "by his stripes we are healed" there is scripture after scripture. So dont give me your blindfold views, without scripture.

As far as Jesus being poor goes??? Well, he seemed to have enough money to have a treasurer. And his clothes seemed to be nice enough for people to want to fight over them when they were taken from him.... hmmm.

As far as Tess's mum goes, and her experience. i didnt say anything but, someone who sticks by God when there life falls apart is a mature and sensible Christian because God is the only way. So i commend her sticking with God.

I didnt explain properly. I dont mean to say God wants us to pray properly, thats the wrond way of putting it. What i mean is that some people see things in the bible, and believe them but dont take them seriously, or dont take them litterally, like for today. So they think, "Gods a sovereing God... so if he heals me he heals me, if he doesnt, he doesnt. His will." and they throw prayers up in hope, not in certainty. Its terrible that the sickness took her, but certain that God would have then used it for His glory so that she did not die in vain.

[apothanein kerdos]

Fine, you tell God what to do and I'll have faith and trust Him. We'll see who gets along further in life.

I'm writing an essay concerning this issue. You can wait until I'm done to get a full reply.

[apothanein kerdos]

Actually, here is a snipit of the post dealing with the "plethera" of scriptures you mentioned. In all reality, there are few and even those are mistranslated:

1 Peter 2:24 (Isaiah 53:5)

[HisWordIsSufficient]

I dont demand things off God. i ask. like He tells us to. So i trust that He keeps His word like He says He does. And, every time, He does. Coz i dont ask Him for things that arent in line with His will.

i agree that your prayers will only be answered if there in line with God's will. So, all throughout the bible it says its His will for his people to be healthy and prosperous.... so if your asking in His will.... Jesus died so we dont have to have all that junk.

Thanks for the lowdown on Isaiah 53. im very aware what its about. And apart of what its about is healing.

So since your a professional scripture translator, how do you wriggle your way out of the one that says that were to lay hands on the sick and they will recover (in Jesus name)??????

i am not here to lie. im here to tell you the truth that i have found in the bible.

You write an essay, ill give you scripture when i get home. (not at home at the mo)

looking forward to your essay.

ps... about the last part of your post....if healing in Jesus name is not for today... then how come it works? Why can i see living proof all around me??

Edited November 9, 2005 by Bluebird1

[apothanein kerdos]

I am not saying healing is non-existant. What I am saying is that healing is not always a physical healing and it is not part of the atonement.

As for you giving scripture, no, I won't even read it until you properly refute the interpretation I gave of these scriptures.

[HisWordIsSufficient]

I am not saying healing is non-existant. What I am saying is that healing is not always a physical healing and it is not part of the atonement.

As for you giving scripture, no, I won't even read it until you properly refute the interpretation I gave of these scriptures.

Well i didnt say that healing was ALWAYS physical healing as well. Hence, believing in prosperity, which is abundance in all areas of life, body, spirit, finance, everything. Im starting to loose what were disagreeing on??? oh thats right, you believe in some cases, God doesnt want you healed. I believe He always wants to restore His righteous through Jesus.

And you still havent answered me about the scripture "Lay your hands on the sick and they WILL recover"...hmmm.

My bottom line is:

Faith will heal you. We cant argue with someones experiences, and thats been mine, healing every time. And we cant argue with what God has revealed to someone. thats what God has revealed to me. And we cant argue with scripture. Which is what ive been shown. So you can believe whatever it is the Lord happened to show you, ill believe what the Lord shows me, and we will leave it at that. If you want to write me an essay, and expect me to read it when you wont bother reading scriptures which im just trying to help show you something wonderful, if your not going to read the Word of God on a matter, that is being offered to you, i wont bother, since you dont want it. Thats just fine, but dont expect me to continue this conversation anymore.

I know what God has shown and proven to me. and im greatful and rejoice over it. Wether you agree or not, is not an issue to me any longer, because your last post just finalised my participation in this debate. I will give those who have requested the scripture through PM, but if you dont want the truth, i wont offend you with it. Ive said enough and those who will recieve it will be blessed by it, praise God! those who dont, have there reasons. ill leave it between you and God. Case closed. The Lord has told me to just leave it. He will do His work where he needs to. Its not my job... so ill leave it.

SuperJew, i dont want to offend or upset you, i dont want you to think that im saying false things, because i am not. i am not giving you my own ideas, im giving you what has been revealed to me. So i will not sway from it. I love you brother in Christ. I truly do.

[apothanein kerdos]

Lay your hands on the sick and they WILL recover

First, I don't need to. YOu haven't replied to a single thing I've said, thus why should I reply to anything you say. If you don't have the common courtesy to reply, why should I?

As for Mark 16:18...why should I trust a portion of scripture (vs. 9 to the end) that is:

1) Written in a different style from the rest of the book

2) Uses a 2nd century form of Greek

3) Doesn't agree with the rest of the book on certain issues

4) Isn't supported elsewhere in the Bible

5) Isn't found in most early manuscripts

Explain that to me and I might consider it.

As for a proper interpretation, even if we buy into this, do you likewise let snakes bite you? Of course not. This is still (though written later) metaphorical in meaning. I'll explain later, right now I honestly don't feel like explaining to you because you haven't taken the time to counter or even pay attention to anything I've written.

We cant argue with someones experiences, and thats been mine, healing every time.

Oh, okay, you must believe Mormons, Jehovah witnesses, scientologist and the rest are all saved and following true gods, correct? After all, their expirience has told them what they believe is true.

And we cant argue with scripture. Which is what ive been shown. So you can believe whatever it is the Lord happened to show you, ill believe what the Lord shows me, and we will leave it at that. If you want to write me an essay, and expect me to read it when you wont bother reading scriptures which im just trying to help show you something wonderful, if your not going to read the Word of God on a matter, that is being offered to you, i wont bother, since you dont want it. Thats just fine, but dont expect me to continue this conversation anymore.

I don't need to read the scriptures you bring forth because they've already been refuted. I also don't want your opinion. I know more about this issue and I am more qualified on this issue than you are. I grew up with grandparents that taught this to me, the "name it claim it" theology. It was my first expirience with Christianity. I have read every single scripture there is concerning the issue and have likewise found the proper interpretation. You are believing a lie, a demonic lie that has snaked its way into theology. There is no getting around it.

As for arguing with scripture, I'm not, I'm defending it against the twisting you are performing.

Edited November 9, 2005 by Super Jew