Any hope for the Jews ?

[Fiosh]

I have never seen the question asked in an honest way.

Speculating about how Christ saves people is simply that, speculation, which can cause much more harm than good. It leads to an attitude of pride about our salvation; it infects our basic beliefs.

We evangelize because Christ tells us to, not because we can save people, we can't, and only the Holy Spirit can create faith in a person.

The basic question in my mind is puffed up with pride, and used as a weapon more than anything else.

Smalcald, I honestly have no idea why you feel that way. Can you explain? Or maybe show how to ask the question in an honest way.

If you read my explanation as to why I posted the question, I'm not sure why you feel I'm being dishonest and puffed up with pride.

I don't understand, brother??????????????

[Smalcald]

I probably did not come across correctly or accurately(well given your and shilo's responses know I didn't). I didn't mean anybody on this board or anybody here is puffed up with pride for talking about this, and certainly not you or Shilo.

What I meant was I have seen hell used as some sort of ax or weapon, not to bring people to God, but to make Christians feel better about their own little club. I have seen far too many Christians who actually seem kind of happy that other's may not go to heaven, to kind of salivate about hell and how horrible it will be for some people. I think that mindset is so wrong and infects our basic beliefs. Now sometimes I jump in talking about these other issues which I am thinking about, and this topic set me to thinking about it, I don't mean that anyone here is thinking that way, and I was probably not clear about that.

But we do have several scriptures and I think also from tradition, to not spend too much time worrying about God's eternal plans for other people, we are not to judge those on the outside, only those who are on the inside, also we are not to speculate about who will ascend to heaven and who to the abyss. I just think the question can be used in the wrong way, that's all, not that it was asked wrongly here. Actually it was done well here.

[Fiosh]

I probably did not come across correctly or accurately(well given your and shilo's responses know I didn't). I didn't mean anybody on this board or anybody here is puffed up with pride for talking about this, and certainly not you or Shilo.

What I meant was I have seen hell used as some sort of ax or weapon, not to bring people to God, but to make Christians feel better about their own little club. I have seen far too many Christians who actually seem kind of happy that other's may not go to heaven, to kind of salivate about hell and how horrible it will be for some people. I think that mindset is so wrong and infects our basic beliefs. Now sometimes I jump in talking about these other issues which I am thinking about, and this topic set me to thinking about it, I don't mean that anyone here is thinking that way, and I was probably not clear about that.

But we do have several scriptures and I think also from tradition, to not spend too much time worrying about God's eternal plans for other people, we are not to judge those on the outside, only those who are on the inside, also we are not to speculate about who will ascend to heaven and who to the abyss. I just think the question can be used in the wrong way, that's all, not that it was asked wrongly here. Actually it was done well here.

Thanks for clearing that up, smalcald.

I understand what you are saying about not spending too much time worrying about God's eternal plans for other people.

Yet, I can't shake the image of that Jewish father and son worshiping in the fading light. I can't help but wonder what God thought as He looked down upon them. It's hard for me to believe He was thinking of sending them to hell.

That's all.

I know that some people feel that being saved by a death bed conversion is "not fair" because the dying individual got to live a life of sin and are saved at the last minute.

I don't feel that way. But it's taken me many years to get where I am in my thinking today. I can honestly say that if, when I meet Jesus, He tells me that my sole purpose for living was to help just one soul into heaven---someone who would have been damned had I not shared the Gospel with them---even if they were a stranger to me on earth---I will be overjoyed.

I don't want anyone to be in hell; not even my "enemies". Imagine how horrible a place it must be that God was willing to suffer and die to keep us from going there.

I want that Jewish boy to go to heaven. And, if that is not the case then.............

I want someone to show me where, in Scripture it says that those who NEVER heard the Gospel preached, are going to hell.

[Atalyah]

Do you believe that all non-Messianic Jews....any Jews that have not accepted Jesus as Lord and Saviour...are going to eternal damnation?

Why or why not?

I don't ask this to be inflammatory. I really want to know what you believe and why.

Thanks,

Fiosh

I'm one of the few who voted "no" on this poll, but really my answer isn't a "no", more like a "yes, if they continue in unbelief, even rejecting Christ at his second advent". I couldn't say a flat out "yes", because there is more hope for them. The reason why is that I think that when Christ returns, some will see him as the promised Messiah and come to a belief in him. Not that I think there is salvation outside of Christ.

So, while a Jew may presently reject Jesus as Messiah, because when he comes on his second advent he will come as a lion (what they expected) and not as a lamb (which they didn't understand at his first advent), they will recognise him. In this sense, the future of the Jew is different than that of the Gentile.

So there may be Jews that presently have not accepted Jesus as Saviour, but if Christ returns and they see him as such, then they will not die in their sins.

[larryt]

I would like to know if anyone is capable of evangelizing without speaking a word?

it appears much discussion is on the "great commission' by word of mouth.

what happened to works and "conformity"?

works are "mitzvoh", to jews.

they take this seriously----it helps in all parts of their walk in life and their fellowship

with YHWH.

we are to mitzvoh also----its just called something different.

I just saw this on jews 4 jesus...

a christian with messianic friends, who have rabbinical friends and they hang out together, went to ones house to watch "South Park".....

the gentile said he couldnt based on his conviction thru psalm 1.

no sitting in the counsel of the wicked,

and meditate on Gods Law day and night, and

He related that to Loving the Lord thy God with all his heart soul and strength,

and he hoped YHWH would bless him and use him by it.

whether or not any of the rabbinical friends inquired what this gentile beleived, or where he got it from, he evangelized, by word of mouth, action and by being conformed in the image of the Jewish Messiah, as per the NT scritpure through the Tanakh ones.

its shouldnt be that difficult, but its not just non-beleiving Jews we are to "evangelize", we can do it this way for gentiles also.

many people dont think Jews prosletyzed or evangelized in the Tanakh(ot).

nothing is further from the truth.

Paul visited synagogues in asia that had gentile proselytes to judaism familiar with Torah.

Moses married a 'stranger'.....

Hi Mark,

I would like to comment on just a few things.

1. We are not saved by works. Works are an indication that we are in fact saved.

2. Salvation comes by HEARING the Word of God. I naturally stands that it must be preached.

3. Jewish people that do not believe in Jesus/Yeshua are not save just as gentiles are not saved unless they believe. There are many Jews that HAVE turned to Yeshua and have been saved.

4. In the OT people were saved the same way they are saved in the NT - Believing in the Messiah who would come.

God knows those that are predestined to eternal life.

LT