apothanein kerdos Posted December 20, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 20, 2005 Ah, see, I didn't read that he never went back to the courts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrestkc Posted December 20, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 114 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,015 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted December 20, 2005 Ah, see, I didn't read that he never went back to the courts. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted December 20, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted December 20, 2005 Ah yes - The employees of NSA have nothing better to do with their time than to sit around and listen in on Granny's call to a friend Germany. If you actually listened to the speach, the president made it clear that they are only concerned with those who have apparent links to Al Queda and thus a potential threat to the US. And if they have to wait for a court order, it might be too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted December 21, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2005 Ah, see, I didn't read that he never went back to the courts. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrestkc Posted December 21, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 114 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,015 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2005 Ah yes - The employees of NSA have nothing better to do with their time than to sit around and listen in on Granny's call to a friend Germany. If you actually listened to the speach, the president made it clear that they are only concerned with those who have apparent links to Al Queda and thus a potential threat to the US. And if they have to wait for a court order, it might be too late. That's what he said, but we have no way of veifying that do we? If it was so innocent why did he not go back and let the court know within the 72 hr alloted time what he was doing? Should have been easy enough if everything was on the up and up. He broke the law, therefore his credibility on this issue is shattered. Some of you may trust Bush, but if this is swept under the rug, then other presidents in the future may figure they can do this too....Including some you may not find so trustworthy. You have to put this in a context that the right wingers can understand: If the President of the United States can use his power to violate the Forth Amendment in the name of National Security, then the President of the United States can use his power to violate the Second Amendment and take away all your guns in the name of National Security. See, that example will really hit home with them. I guarantee it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giaour Posted December 21, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 179 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,941 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/28/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/08/1964 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Carter Used Same Spy Powers As Bush December 19th, 2005 Almost immediately after the enactment of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978, President Jimmy "the Saint" Carter issued Executive Order #12139: Foreign Intelligence Electronic Surveillance By the authority vested in me as President by Sections 102 and 104 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1802 and 1804), in order to provide as set forth in that Act for the authorization of electronic surveillance for foreign intelligence purposes, it is hereby ordered as follows: 1-101. Pursuant to Section 102(a)(1) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1802(a)), the Attorney General is authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order, but only if the Attorney General makes the certifications required by that Section. 1-102. Pursuant to Section 102(b) of the Foreign Intelligence Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1802(b)), the Attorney General is authorized to approve applications to the court having jurisdiction under Section 103 of that Act to obtain orders for electronic surveillance for the purpose of obtaining foreign intelligence information. 1-103. Pursuant to Section 104(a)(7) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1804(a)(7)), the following officials, each of whom is employed in the area of national security or defense, is designated to make the certifications required by Section 104(a)(7) of the Act in support of applications to conduct electronic surveillance: (a) Secretary of State. (b) Secretary of Defense. © Director of Central Intelligence. (d) Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. (e) Deputy Secretary of State. (f) Deputy Secretary of Defense. (g) Deputy Director of Central Intelligence. None of the above officials, nor anyone officially acting in that capacity, may exercise the authority to make the above certifications, unless that official has been appointed by the President with the advice and consent of the Senate. 1-104. [Deleted] 1-105. [Deleted] [secs. 1-104 and 1-105 amended Executive Order 12036 of Jan. 24, 1978, which was revoked by Executive Order 12333 of Dec. 4, 1981.] Jimmy Carter 1978 Once more, with feeling: [T]he Attorney General is authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order, but only if the Attorney General makes the certifications required by that Section. Again, none of this is news, except to the New York Times. And we all know why they are pretending it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giaour Posted December 21, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 179 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,941 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/28/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/08/1964 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Press Briefing by Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and General Michael Hayden, Principal Deputy Director for National Intelligence James S. Brady Briefing Room 8:30 A.M. EST MR. McCLELLAN: Good morning, everybody. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giaour Posted December 21, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 179 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,941 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/28/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/08/1964 Share Posted December 21, 2005 AG: Surveillance Legal And Authorized Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RickLee Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 No not according to the senate speaches yesterday ...they were discussing it in the senate for a longtime yesterday and it looks tome like there is a strong chance he will be impeached. Ah yes, we should trust politicians A lot of people are using this as nothing more than a political agenda. The same senators giving the speeches also voted to increase funding to the NSA which has an admitted Echelon project. Sorry, but if the senators really cared, why did they increase funding to begin with? They are merely using this to their advantage. By ordering the National Security Agency -- the N.S.A, so secretive that in Washington its initials are said to stand for "No Such Agency" -- to wiretap and eavesdrop on thousands of American citizens without a court order, Bush committed actions specifically forbidden by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). Passed in 1978 after the Senate's Church Committee documented in detail the Nixon administration's widespread use of U.S. intelligence agencies to spy on the anti-Vietnam war movement and other political dissidents, FISA "expressly made it a crime for government officials 'acting under color of law' to engage in electronic eavesdropping 'other than pursuant to statute.'", source....director of the Center for National Security Studies, Kate Martin, to the Washington Post this past weekend. Nice try, but I know FISA It was ammended in 2001 and in 2005 to allow for secret wiretaps. The Patriot act is mostly noted in that if the domestic wiretap deals with what is considered a "foriegn intelligence" (such as terrorists or suspected terrorists...even if US citizens) a warrant is not needed. Come on, people! Isn't it a bit naive to think that the American public ever really knows what the federal government is up to at any given time? I have an idea: let's trying spending more time praying for our president and other leaders instead of criticizing and judging them. Then we can see what good God can bring out of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted December 21, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Ah yes - The employees of NSA have nothing better to do with their time than to sit around and listen in on Granny's call to a friend Germany. If you actually listened to the speach, the president made it clear that they are only concerned with those who have apparent links to Al Queda and thus a potential threat to the US. And if they have to wait for a court order, it might be too late. That's what he said, but we have no way of veifying that do we? If it was so innocent why did he not go back and let the court know within the 72 hr alloted time what he was doing? Should have been easy enough if everything was on the up and up. He broke the law, therefore his credibility on this issue is shattered. You make it sound like Bush was wire-tapping personal phone lines. Look - there are things I am not allowed to say for reasons I cannot explain . . . but if you knew anything about the intelligence industry, you wouldn't be arguing this way at all. For one - prove that he broke the law. For another . . .well, imagine a critical phone call is made dealing with instructions for a planned bombing the next day. By the time the 72 hr alloted time was done with, it would be too late - wouldn't it? I have an idea: let's trying spending more time praying for our president and other leaders instead of criticizing and judging them. Then we can see what good God can bring out of the situation. Well spoken, sir! Someone who actually believes in putting the words of Scripture into practice - what a novel idea!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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