Guest idolsmasher Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 The "West Bank" - literally Judea and Samaria except to the anti-Israel liberal media elite - is precisely where one sees the true political intention of radical Islam: Annihilation of the State of Israel lock, stock and barrel! But in reality, who is annihalating who? Most Palestinian towns now lie in rubble while the Jews live in their half a million dollar homes just next door protected by barbed wire fences and Israeli military in the west bank and Gaza. Gee, I wonder why they have a beef with the Jews? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 But in reality, who is annihalating who? Most Palestinian towns now lie in rubble while the Jews live in their half a million dollar homes just next door protected by barbed wire fences and Israeli military in the west bank and Gaza. Gee, I wonder why they have a beef with the Jews? that is a valid question....but you are drawing the wrong conclusion. They are being annihilated by listening to Arafat as he also steals all monies given for the Palestinians and puts it in his bank account. I have a few Palestinian friends. I personally knew a man who was tortured to death by Arafat's hooligans. Every rib was broken one at atime until he mercifully died. His crime? He didn't pay the extortion money that Arafat wanted to open a car lot in Bethlehem. No jews were involved. You just need to open your eyes, bro... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Durnan Posted August 18, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,782 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 18, 2003 One cannot keep track of the promises broken by the jaded Muslim homicide-bombers. Call off your murderous (and tragically misguided) "running dogs" - and Israel will have no need whatever to enter Ramallah or Gaza or whatever. Yes? Cessation of hostilities awaits only a Muslim DECISION for such. When will the Palestinians pronounce such? How about TODAY.....right now? Yes? If the answer is no, then the world will clearly grasp the genuine intention of Islam: the annihilation of the state of Israel. God bless America. http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idolsmasher Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Call off your murderous (and tragically misguided) "running dogs" - and Israel will have no need whatever to enter Ramallah or Gaza or whatever. Yes? First off, I'm not Palestinian or Arab or Muslim so they aren't my dogs. Second, you know that the land grab and settlements are the main source of contention and that Israel has dissected the west bank and Gaza into small enclaves (you may as well call them ghettos) by constructing and policing roads which cut directly through Palestinian land using the excuse that they must protect the Israeli people who have erected these illegal settlements inside Palestinian areas. Life for Palestinians consists of daily restriction of movement, not being able to work, not being allowed to visit relatives or friends in other parts of their land, having their land taken away, their olive and fruit trees bulldozed, more settlements and roads being constructed and guarded by Israeli military, power cuts, shortages of medicine and water and food, Cities and towns reduced to piles of rubble, etc, etc, etc. It's basically a land grab by Israel against the wishes of almost everybody except Israel's extended family, the USA, and at the expense of human rights and decency. As I see it, one side is just as fanatical as the other but the Israeli fanatics have superior and overwhelming force thanks to good ole Uncle Sam. I know I know, it's all Arafat's fault and Israel is as pure as snow! Yeah right, gimme a break! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 Idolsmasher, You are illinformed with regard to what is going on in Israel. First of all, you say, the land grab and settlements are the main source of contention and that Israel has dissected the west bank and Gaza into small enclaves (you may as well call them ghettos) by constructing and policing roads which cut directly through Palestinian land using the excuse that they must protect the Israeli people who have erected these illegal settlements inside Palestinian areas. On this point, you are wrong. If the settlements are the main source of contention, then how do you explain the countless acts of terrorism and the three wars imposed upon Israel when NO settlements existed? The settlements are not the problem. The problem is that the Arab world refuses to recognize Israel's right to exist, and have committed themselves to Israel's destruction. Israel did not create the refugee problem that now exists. The Arabs did that. Israel has taken steps to defend itself against the terrorist attacks. Israel is doing EXACTLY what any other country would do if it faced similiar threats. The settlements are NOT illegal because the West Bank and Gaza are not Palestinian land. The West Bank is biblical Judea and Samaria. That has always been Jewish land. Furthermore, from the standpoint of international law, The West Bank and Gaza are currently unallocated territory. Anyone can currently live there. The settlements are basically suburbs of Jerusalem and Telaviv. Most of them are not even near any Arab towns. They pose no threat. Next, you say Life for Palestinians consists of daily restriction of movement, not being able to work, not being allowed to visit relatives or friends in other parts of their land, having their land taken away, their olive and fruit trees bulldozed, more settlements and roads being constructed and guarded by Israeli military, power cuts, shortages of medicine and water and food, Cities and towns reduced to piles of rubble, etc, etc, etc. It's basically a land grab by Israel against the wishes of almost everybody except Israel's extended family, the USA, and at the expense of human rights and decency. As I see it, one side is just as fanatical as the other but the Israeli fanatics have superior and overwhelming force thanks to good ole Uncle Sam. I know I know, it's all Arafat's fault and Israel is as pure as snow! Yeah right, gimme a break! Israel takes the actions that it does in self-defense. I am amazed that you have not offered equal criticizm for the terrorism committed by the Palestinians. Israel's actions seem harsh, but do not come close to things that the Palestinians do such us sneaking into a neighborhood and stabbing babies and old women in their beds. The Palestinians have brought their misery on themselves. The Palesitinians called for a Jihad and they got one. Israel's critics are just ticked off because the bullets can fly both ways. The PA should not have started a fight that they could not win. Israel cannot grant the Palestinians freedoms like other people enjoy so long as they maintain a policy of terrorism and belligerance with the people and governemnt of Israel. I also find it distasteful to refer to Palestinians neighborhoods as ghettos. Again, their standard of living is not the fault of Israel. In fact, the UN General assembly has passed resolutions calling on Israel to halt any attempt to resettle the Palestinians. Israel is blamed for the Palestinian's condition, and then criticized for trying to offer the Palestinians relief. Israel can't win. Currently, Israel has built the Palestinians several hopitals, schools, and modern sewer sytems. Palestinians who need it, can get welfare and social security from Israel even though they are not citizens. Many of them get free health care. Even terrorists who injure themselves while trying to kill Jews are given top notch medical care. How come people like you do not give Israel credit for the things they do to help the Palestinians? You are obviously trying to equate Israel's self-defense with the Hitler and the Nazi regime by using the term "ghetto." Typical tactics of anti-Semites like yourself. About the cities and towns reduced to piles of rubble? I suppose you are referring to Jenin when the Palestinians booby trapped their buildings to blow up if an Israeli soldier got near. They blew up most of the buildings themselves. Most the destruction and pain and inconvenience they deal with is self-inflicted. The Palestinians suffeer because the incomptetent and irresponsible leadership of Arafat and company. Is Israel perfect? No they are not. I can come up with cases where individual Israelis have acted inappropriately towards Palestinians. There have been soldiers who commited crimes against Arabs. However, they are not treated as heroes in Israel. They do not name streets after them. They do not call them martyrs. They do not put their pictures up on billboards. It is the Palestinians who do such things. There are many israeli soldiers in prison right now; some serving life sentences. These are people who committed crimes against the Palestinians without the consent or backing of the Israeli government. The Israeli government and the Palestinians are not both equally fanatical as you say. You are obviously trying to paint Israel and the Palestinians as morally equivilant. That is ridiculous. To compare a terrorists who target innocent children with soldiers trying protect those innocent children, is like comparing the arsonist with the firefighter. Israel is the victim. This not a war that concerns only Israel and the Palestinians. This is a war that concerns 6 million Israeli Jews in one Jewish state versus, 550 million Arabs in 22 Arab states. Israel has been targeted for extermination by the Arab community as well as non-Arab muslim countries as well. It is a war that Israel did not ask for, does not deserve, and cannot afford to lose. Israel is fighting for her survival against overwhelming odds. Israel is not perfect and makes mistakes; but Israel 's imperfections do not warrant the blind, irrational hatred that is leveled against her. It is wrong for people like you to lay the blame for the violence of the Middle East on Israel's doorstep while ignoring the the immense risks and great sacrifices that Israel has made for peace. So maybe you should give Israel a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idolsmasher Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 Ooo! Hot Tamalis, would you like some water with that? Shiloh, you need to relax, you're getting all worked up! It's ok, God is going to have his way don't worry. Just trust the Lord, ok? Anyway, whether you believe it or not, land and settlements have always been the issue. Ever since the Jewish people began arriving back in what was then Palestine, they have been making settlements and taking more land. Land and settlements are the issue and not all Palestinians are the wicked extremists you imagine them to be. As for the extremists, well, Israel isn't giving them any reason to back down now. Back down for what? More land grabbing, settlement activity, and brutal military occupation? I don't think so! Anyway, if you want proof of settlement and terrorist activity on the Israeli side, I'll be happy to supply you with links so that you will see this is not at all a one sided war of Israel being the righteous victim as you portray it. It takes two to tango baby, yaaa! Oh behave!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idolsmasher Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 Anyone can currently live there. The settlements are basically suburbs of Jerusalem and Telaviv. Most of them are not even near any Arab towns. They pose no threat. Those suburbs extend an awful long way! (you're wrong about this) Map of Jewish Settlements in Palestian Lands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Idolsmasher, I suppose you could say the settlements have aways been the issue if you buy into the notion propogated by the PA that the entire of nation of Israel is a "settler state." They see TelAviv as an illegal settlement. They consider ALL Jewish cities, even if they are not in Gaza or the West Bank, as "illegal settlements." So, from THAT perspective, yes settlements have always been the issue. The truth is, these settlements in the West Bank and Gaza have not always existed. Even before Jews started living in the W.B. and Gaza, they were subjected to terrorism and war. Furthermore, when Egypt signed a peace treaty back in the 70's, the settlements were not an issue. When Jordan made peace with Israel, the settlements were never mentioned. If there were no settlements, if not one Jew lived outside the pre-1967 borders, they would still be subjected to terrorism, the Arabs would still be trying to destroy Israel. So, the settlements are really a non-issue. The issue is Israel's existance. The settlements are just an excuse the Arabs use to hate Israel. Arafat created the PLO, according to him, to bring about the end of the illegal Jewish occupation of Arab land. The PLO was created in 1964. The "occupation" of the West Bank and Gaza did not begin until 1967. If there was no military occupation of Israel in those territories prior to 1967, if there were no settlements in those territories prior to 1967, then what "illegal occupation" would Arafat be referring to? He was talking about the nation of Israel itself. Hint #1: When the Arabs talk about the "West Bank," they are referring to the entire land of Israel. Hint #2: When Arabs talk about illegal Jewish settlements, they are talking about entire nation of Israel. Hint #3: When Arabs call for the "end of Israeli occupation," that is code for the dismantlement of the entire Jewish state. Again, I point out that the settlements are not illegal. The WB and Gaza are JEWISH land. If anything, it is the Arab Palestinians who are occupying Jewish territory. You say that Israel is trying to gobble up Palestinian land. The Palestinians also refer to Israel as an expansionist state. Yeah, right. A whole 1/10 of 1% of the whole Middle East. The entire country is the size of Rhode Island. Yet, that is just too much land for Jews to live on, right? If the Jews are trying to gobble up Arab land as you say, then why did they agree in 1935 to giving the Palestinians three times what Bush is offering them today? Why have they offered the Palestinians their own country three times? Why did they give back the Sinai to Egypt? Why did they give the Temple Mount back into Arab control? If they are the land grabbers you make them out to be, then Israel should be MUCH larger than it is today. In truth, the Jews have every right to live in any part of the West Bank and Gaza. They have every right to live on Jewish land. It is the PA propogandists who say that the settlements are illegal. That is simply not true. The Palestinians are nothing more than the descendants of Arab migrant workers that imigrated to the land AFTER the Jews started returning to the land in the early 1900s. They found jobs working for Jews who were trying to irrigate deserts and dry up the malaria infested swamps. Most of what was called "Palestine" at the time was virtually uninhabited except for a few scant Arab towns here and there. It is not like there was some kind of bustling Arab metropolis, and the Jews just came in and kicked them all out. That is what they want you to think. The Arabs could not have cared less about the land, and did nothing with it for centuries. They took no interest in the land until the Jews came back. Then they started caring about it. The dome of the rock on the Temple mount was not declared a muslim holy site until the 1920s during the time of the British mandate, when it became clear that Jews were going to have a homeland in the forseeable future. They have created an entire mythology to justify calling it a muslim holy site. Islam is a sham religion and therefore any claim that the temple mount is a muslim holy site is equally fraudulent. The Palestinians also say that the Jews never had a Temple there, that the Jews never even lived there at all. They also say that Jesus was really a Palestinian Arab freedom fighter. Just a bunch of Baloney. A final word about occupation: Occupation occurs when one country militarily overthrows the government of another soevereign country and then establishes control over it (like what America is doing in Iraq). Since the Six-day war did not overthrow any Palestinian sovereignty, there is no occupation, by definition. Israel did not defeat the Palestinians in 1967. They defeated Jordan, Egypt, and Syria. The West Bank and Gaza were not part of either country. Jordan and Egypt had adminstrative control over those areas, but never annexed them into their respective countries. Since the Palestinians are sitting on Jewish land and were not conquered by Israel, one cannot say they are occupied. Idolsmasher, you seem intelligent enough. It is a shame that you have been sucked into the false claims, revisionist history, and downright lies employed by the Arab propoganda machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted August 24, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 193 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,459 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/28/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/20/1965 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Cool Map! Looks as if the 'Palestinians' better learn to live in peace as they are surrounded, know what I mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Idolsmasher, I will admit that there are more settlements than I was aware of. That however is good news. Still, the settlements do not pose any threat. Arabs have not been evicted from their homes in order to build any settlements. Not one Arab has been displaced as result of settlement activity. There is no reason to believe that they should be dismantled. I am actually pleased to see that Jewish people are being so brave by daring to live on the land that God gave them. It is the Arabs who are the land grabbers. Israel has had to fight entire wars because the Arabs are determined to take all of Israel away from the Jews. The terrorism that Israel endures is the result of land grabbing Arabs who want to destroy the Jewish nation and take for themselves what the Jews worked so hard to build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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