Deserving Eternal Torture/Torment

[Smalcald]

I really like the parable of the rich man and Lazerath. One thing about it is how it shows the nature of faith itself. The rich guy begs for God to let him warn his family about their fate. God's response is fascinating, not even if an Angel from Heaven, or a man raised from the dead visited them would they believe, if they don't believe the Word of God proclaimed in their own scriptures they won't believe anything, including miracles or God Himself.

It is kind of an aside to this discussion but it goes to faith and reason. The Word contained in Holy Scripture is more than paper, more than words, it is the power of God for salvation, more powerful than angels or spirits or Satan, and it sits right in front of us. It is kind of a backwards way of thinking about it from a human perspective, I often hear people who don

[Pilgrim7]

Hang in there Caroline,

Some interesting Scriptures:

From the Old Testament:

Ezek 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: [and] not that he should return from his ways, and live?

18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, [and] doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

From the New Testament to show that God doesn't change, here are the words of Jesus Himself given in instruction and not a parable:

Mt 10:26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.

10:27 What I tell you in darkness, [that] speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, [that] preach ye upon the housetops.

10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Why didn't Jesus tell them to preach from the houstops that His father, the God of love, was the 'Eternal Torturer'. The wages of sin have always been death from the Garden of Eden down to the day Jesus returns for His 'church without spot or wrinkle or any such thing".

Do some research and you will find that the doctrine of an everlasting torture was introduced by the Catholic church until the year 553 at the council of Constantinople under the Emperor Justinian.

The Apostles taught that the 'wages of sin were death'.

If anyone wants a copy of the study drop me an email and I will be glad to attach it to you.

God bless and keep,

Dennis

[Arthur Durnan]

Annihilationism is at the very core of all False Cult teachings including Jehovah's False Witnesses, the Jewish Seventh-day Sabbath-keeping folk, Christadelphians, etc. In all biblical reality, it makes no sense whatever for God to CREATE man, then ANNIHILATE man, then RE-CREATE man to stand at His Great White Throne Judgment in Revelation 20. The Bible speaks of a RESURRECTION after death - which surely implies SOMETHING must be there - and not a RE-CREATION after death, which would necessitate snd give rise to a DIFFERENT person altogether. And, of course, False Cultists conveniently overlook that the word of "grace" is not sheol, but rather queber which is not found in the Luke 16:19-31 Reality Check for those who would deny a literal Gehenna. Isn't it simply AMAZING how Cultists strive so hard to put words in the mouth of Jesus Christ re eternal destiny? But then, maybe Cultists are very good at needlepoint?

Thank You, Lord Jesus, for clearly spelling it out for us mortals!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Arthur Durnan]

Sorry, "grace" should read "grave." Thanx.

[Pilgrim7]

Death means death. God says what He means and means what He says. Yes death is eternal separation from God. When God destroys, He destroys. The teaching of 'everlasting torment' originated in Babylon. They taught that 'departed souls' went to the 'underworld'. Most Paganism stems from Babylon and has never taught anihilation, but some form of eternal punishment. This idea was further developed by Greece and perfected by Rome.

Yet there is 'good news' for those of you who relish the idea of 'eternal torture'. The death of the wicked does take place in the 'lake of fire' and there is a period of torment proportional to the sin of the individual. This time of torment is still to come in the future, at the Great White Throne Judgment. The demons who know Scripture said to Jesus:

Mt 8:28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.

8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

So we see that there is a time of torment. Now Jude tells us that Sodom and Gomorrha suffered the vengence of eternal fire.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Now lets see what God says and not man. Here Sodom and Gomorrha suffered this vengence of eternal fire as an example of the Judgment of God. Where did this take place? On the earth. Where did the eternal fire come from? God. How lond did this eternal fire burn? Until the cities and all in them were anihilated. Is this eternal fire still burning today? No. Is this eternal fire burning today? No. When does this eternal fire come? On Judgment day. This is the word of God and not some man invented fable.

How can one teach that 'God is love' and at the same time teach that He 'tortures all eternally' without regard to the gravity and amount of their sin. Even the Catholic church when they 'christianized' this Pagan teaching, seeing its inherent unfairness and barbarity had to temper it with the teaching of 'Purgatory', or a 'second chance' for those who weren't too bad.

Here we see that God and even the devils understand that the 'wages of sin are death'.

God bless,

Dennis

[Pilgrim7]

I just reported what the Bible says.

God bless,

Dennis

[CarolineS]

Death means death. God says what He means and means what He says. Yes death is eternal separation from God. When God destroys, He destroys. The teaching of 'everlasting torment' originated in Babylon. They taught that 'departed souls' went to the 'underworld'. Most Paganism stems from Babylon and has never taught anihilation, but some form of eternal punishment. This idea was further developed by Greece and perfected by Rome.

Yet there is 'good news' for those of you who relish the idea of 'eternal torture'. The death of the wicked does take place in the 'lake of fire' and there is a period of torment proportional to the sin of the individual. This time of torment is still to come in the future, at the Great White Throne Judgment. The demons who know Scripture said to Jesus:

Mt 8:28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.

8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

So we see that there is a time of torment. Now Jude tells us that Sodom and Gomorrha suffered the vengence of eternal fire.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Now lets see what God says and not man. Here Sodom and Gomorrha suffered this vengence of eternal fire as an example of the Judgment of God. Where did this take place? On the earth. Where did the eternal fire come from? God. How lond did this eternal fire burn? Until the cities and all in them were anihilated. Is this eternal fire still burning today? No. Is this eternal fire burning today? No. When does this eternal fire come? On Judgment day. This is the word of God and not some man invented fable.

How can one teach that 'God is love' and at the same time teach that He 'tortures all eternally' without regard to the gravity and amount of their sin. Even the Catholic church when they 'christianized' this Pagan teaching, seeing its inherent unfairness and barbarity had to temper it with the teaching of 'Purgatory', or a 'second chance' for those who weren't too bad.

Here we see that God and even the devils understand that the 'wages of sin are death'.

God bless,

Dennis

Hi Dennis,

Glad to see you are back! I believe it has been awhile since I have seen you around.

Nice post, by the way. Mind if I add some scripture?

<Psalm 37:10,20>

"For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be."

"But the wicked shall perish; And the enemies of the Lord, Like the splendor of the meadows, shall vanish. Into smoke they shall vanish away."

Scripture is very clear. The wicked shall be as if they never were. God's purpose is that hell will destroy the devil and all sin and sinners and make the world safe for eternity. One sinner, if left on this planet, would be a deadly virus forever threatening the universe. It is God's plan to isolate sin and blot it out of existence for all time.

An eternal hell of torment would perpetuate sin and make its eradication impossible. Such a horrible theory is slander against the holy name of a loving God. The devil delights to see our loving Creator pictured as such a monstrous tyrant, and he alone can benefit from such teachings.

No one will be in heaven because he feared hell. People are saved because they love and obey Christ.

In Christ,

CarolineS

[Pilgrim7]

Thanks for the support Caroline,

Can you imagine the poor native who never heard of Jesus, burning eternally with the likes of Hitler. That wouldn't even be fair or just, let alone loving. Jesus is coming soon, exciting things happening here!!!! Look up the 'shaking' and the 'omega of apostasy'.

God bless and keep you,

Dennis

[Arthur Durnan]

Jehovah's False Witness and SDA philosophy rides again......and falls off! So if everlasting punishment & everlasting bless are not everlasting, then by JFW and SDA philosophy, neither is Almighty God everlasting as the IDENTICAL GREEK is given to all three subjects with respect to their duration. Hmm. JFWs and SDAs always attempt to square circles.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Copper Scroll]

To the SDAs: you continue to confuse location with degree. Hitler and the "poor native" (who, BTW, is 'without excuse' according to the Bible) will both go to hell, but Hitler will suffer much greater torment. God is just and will mete out punishment according to deeds.

I wonder what hell would be like for someone like Gandhi... someone who appears to do everything right and does a lot of people a lot of good but happens to be a non-Christian. Might his good deeds "cancel-out" whatever torments hell has in store for non-Christians?