Guest lnj Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I do believe the Bible litterally from cover to cover - Genesis to Revelation, that it is the word of God a divine revelation of Himself to man. I have found it to be axiomatic = "self-evident" and not needing proof. You see Sylvan the burden of proof is on you. I live by faith. This response is to LNJ and Fool-4-Christ. I think we can agree that faith does not equal fact. Establishing something as fact is not easy. The Bible contains many extraordinary claims that, in the absence of extraordinary evidence, can only be believed on faith. I understand that this faith may be real for you. It is still faith. I also have faith. However, my faith is that the Bible is not inerrant and that 950-year-old men and talking snakes (among other extraordinary claims) did not exist. I have faith that there isn't a God who is going to create a world in which people who don't "think" a certain way will perish in hell for eternity. Therefore, you can say that your faith is legitimate. That's fine; it may be legitimate for you. However, I can also say that my faith is legitimate. Sylvan3, I can understand where you are coming from. I am not going to argue with you, in fact I don't have the slightest interest in arguing with you. I hang my head in shame with how some Followers have communicated with non believers and vice versa, but I will pray for you Slyvan3 and I don't mean that in a high and mighty way, looking down at you. I care for you, as crazy as it might sound but that's the way it is! LNJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylvan3 Posted July 20, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 289 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2006 I do believe the Bible litterally from cover to cover - Genesis to Revelation, that it is the word of God a divine revelation of Himself to man. I have found it to be axiomatic = "self-evident" and not needing proof. You see Sylvan the burden of proof is on you. I live by faith. This response is to LNJ and Fool-4-Christ. I think we can agree that faith does not equal fact. Establishing something as fact is not easy. The Bible contains many extraordinary claims that, in the absence of extraordinary evidence, can only be believed on faith. I understand that this faith may be real for you. It is still faith. I also have faith. However, my faith is that the Bible is not inerrant and that 950-year-old men and talking snakes (among other extraordinary claims) did not exist. I have faith that there isn't a God who is going to create a world in which people who don't "think" a certain way will perish in hell for eternity. Therefore, you can say that your faith is legitimate. That's fine; it may be legitimate for you. However, I can also say that my faith is legitimate. Sylvan3, I can understand where you are coming from. I am not going to argue with you, in fact I don't have the slightest interest in arguing with you. I hang my head in shame with how some Followers have communicated with non believers and vice versa, but I will pray for you Slyvan3 and I don't mean that in a high and mighty way, looking down at you. I care for you, as crazy as it might sound but that's the way it is! LNJ Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lnj Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I have no trouble at all believing there could have been a talking snake... I believe in 950 year old men and women... There was a talking ass..if you could you could ask Balaam about it... Jesus said he could make the stones to raise up children of Abraham.. There is not anything God cannot do or allow to be.. I put no limits on His ability.... All Mighty God... And as far as the OP goes..God is just in all He does or allows... I used to question but realized I was making myself more righteous than God to accuse Him of any wrong doing.... Any time I say "How/why could God do that or allow that " I am putting my opinion above His... Scary thing to do, to me to put my mind above His.... That's right, if we could comprehend God, He wouldn't be any Greater than you and I.... LNJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lnj Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I do believe the Bible litterally from cover to cover - Genesis to Revelation, that it is the word of God a divine revelation of Himself to man. I have found it to be axiomatic = "self-evident" and not needing proof. You see Sylvan the burden of proof is on you. I live by faith. This response is to LNJ and Fool-4-Christ. I think we can agree that faith does not equal fact. Establishing something as fact is not easy. The Bible contains many extraordinary claims that, in the absence of extraordinary evidence, can only be believed on faith. I understand that this faith may be real for you. It is still faith. I also have faith. However, my faith is that the Bible is not inerrant and that 950-year-old men and talking snakes (among other extraordinary claims) did not exist. I have faith that there isn't a God who is going to create a world in which people who don't "think" a certain way will perish in hell for eternity. Therefore, you can say that your faith is legitimate. That's fine; it may be legitimate for you. However, I can also say that my faith is legitimate. Sylvan3, I can understand where you are coming from. I am not going to argue with you, in fact I don't have the slightest interest in arguing with you. I hang my head in shame with how some Followers have communicated with non believers and vice versa, but I will pray for you Slyvan3 and I don't mean that in a high and mighty way, looking down at you. I care for you, as crazy as it might sound but that's the way it is! LNJ Thank you! You are most welcome : ) LNJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointer Posted July 20, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 636 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/11/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2006 Probably not. God does not want it known that his followers can get unfair advantage over non-followers. Christians have the same life conditions as others, most of the time, and it is right that this is seen to be so. Those who commit their lives to Christ produce the fruits of the Spirit- peace that the world cannot give, inexpressible joy, self-control, willingness to forgive, usefulness, reliability, patience, generosity, kindness and love. Those are much more precious and practical than anything one can buy in a shop other than the necessities of biological life. I find it to be a baffling possibility that God would not want it known that his followers would get an unfair advantage over non-believers. I don't see where following through with scriptures has anything to do with unfair advantages. Why would the scriptures that I quoted even be mentioned in the Bible if that were the case? They clearly don't state that, "anything you ask for in my name, I will do it (unless it might give the impression of unfairness to believers)". I would think that consistency with scripture trumps any disadvantages because of perceived unfair advantages to believers. There is no inconsistency. The clue comes in 'in My name'. Even if, "in My name", would reconcile the inconsistency that you say--and I don't see where it does-- It's an illusory argument to cite a need to be consistent with Scripture. One is establishing what Scripture means in this very process. Matthew 21:21-22 does not use that phrase. It does not necessarily have to. The statement assumes that the person who prays is genuinely attuned with God, and will ask for whatever the Holy Spirit wishes. It still seems to me that those phrases could easily be interpreted to mean that anything--bar nothing--could be asked for in prayer and it would be granted. Indeed, they could. One must place statements in the context of the person who states them. No-one at the time would have supposed that Jesus meant that 'anything goes', and likewise no reader of the NT would do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest knight2k Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Though the Act of Peter isn't included in the NT, this is interesting to read: http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/humm/Resources/NT/bActPet.html It answers why God allow suffering. But of course being not included in the canon, means we must research it further. But here is one in the New Testament (why it's better not to have "solid" miracles these days): Matthew 24:23-26, NIV. "At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There He is!' do not believe it. For false Christ's and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible. See, I have told you ahead of time. So if anyone tells you, 'There He is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here He is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it." Because Satan can mimic miracles and indeed perform signs. Paul said in Hebrews 6:1-2: "Therefore, leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment." So there must come a time when you leave the "principles" and move on towards "perfection" or "divinity" or "holiness" (exact translation may differ--but you get the idea). When all the "acts" will end and the Spirit of it will live in your whole being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbershay Posted February 25, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/03/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2007 Iranian Stoning Islamic Stoning People, I was unfortunate enough to see clips of the activities in Iran where individuals were stoned to death. It was a brutal cruel and horrific thing to do. I remember at the time thinking that the Iranian government and its supporters who did this were barbarians, etc. Then I remembered that the Bible recommended stoning for people too ! This has haunted me ever since. I am a Christian , saved by the blood of the lamb, but I just dont see how a God of love can authorise such a horrible death. Why not a quick death by beheading, in the Iranian cases it could takes several minutes before a victim could die and it would be quite painful. Perhaps concussion would blur the senses after a while but how long would that take ? Inaccurately aimed stones could damage the eye/s , nose and other facial structures. Yes I am a Christian but as I said it haunts me that a God of love could order such a death. Presumably Jesus must have had to approve of this too to prevent discord in the Trinity. It seems to me that in God doesnt want anyone to be stoned. yet it is a punishment. Of all the things that God wants men to do seems strange it is killing that is the easist for man .. The people seemed to take great joy in killing people. Now understand I dont mean to be blasphemous or disrespectful to God but I want to understand why not a quick death like beheading why this terrible death ? We tell everyone that God is love but are faced with this ? How do we reconcile the two ? Yours in Christ Doug Deuteronomy 22:13-29 "If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and then spurns her, and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings an evil name upon her, saying, `I took this woman, and when I came near her, I did not find in her the tokens of virginity,' then the father of the young woman and her mother shall take and bring out the tokens of her virginity to the elders of the city in the gate; and the father of the young woman shall say to the elders, `I gave my daughter to this man to wife, and he spurns her; and lo, he has made shameful charges against her, saying, "I did not find in your daughter the tokens of virginity." And yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity.' And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city. Then the elders of that city shall take the man and whip him; and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver, and give them to the father of the young woman, because he has brought an evil name upon a virgin of Israel; and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days. But if the thing is true, that the tokens of virginity were not found in the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has wrought folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father's house; so you shall purge the evil from the midst of you. "If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall purge the evil from Israel. "If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her, then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife; so you shall purge the evil from the midst of you. "But if in the open country a man meets a young woman who is betrothed, and the man seizes her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. But to the young woman you shall do nothing; in the young woman there is no offense punishable by death, for this case is like that of a man attacking and murdering his neighbor; because he came upon her in the open country, and though the betrothed young woman cried for help there was no one to rescue her. "If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her; he may not put her away all his days. Stoning for cursing God and the King 1 Kings 21:1-16 Stoning for giving children to Molech Leviticus 20:1-5 Stoning for being a medium or a wizard Leviticus 20:27 "A man or a woman who is a medium or a wizard shall be put to death; they shall be stoned with stones, their blood shall be upon them." Stoning for breaking the Sabbath Numbers 15:32-36 Stoning for stubborn and rebellious sons Deuteronomy 21:18-21 Stoning for stealing Joshua 7:20-26 Stoning of goring animals Exodus 21:28-32 Stoning for touching Mount Sinai Exodus 19:10-13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest knight2k Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 http://palestinename.com/stonings.htm We are ranting about stoning (although I do not believe in the literal meaning of "stoning"), yet can we comprehend why God allowed Christ to suffer, and suffer so badly? Yet His Son is without any sin. The reason behind it is always in the "essence" of the Bible... the fall, redemption, judgment, salvation... to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artsylady Posted February 28, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 171 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,813 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 150 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 28, 2007 Whether it is a prophecy or not is not relevant to me. My first reaction was to laugh. Then, I thought that might be disrespectful. So, I'll just ask you to realize the fact that you don't WANT to give God a chance. You WANT to see him in the way that you now believe He is. You WANT to dismiss every good and positive trait that is revealed in his word. Would you admit that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 3DAVE17 Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 How can a GOD of LOVE allow sin to go unpunished ? Since GOD said that HE would not be mocked, why are you surprised that HE is faithful and just TO KEEP HIS WORDS ? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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