Do You Believe in "Once Saved, Always Saved"

[larryt]

I never said that I was talking about the same eternal life that Jesus gives us. I was talking about a life eternal in judgment, darkness, torment, a place where those who rejected Jesus would burn forever, seperation from God, as well as a life eternal with Jesus. We know from the bible that the rich man after he died was/is in a place of burning because he stated that he was thirsty and in torments. So what is going to happen to him? We know from the book of Revelation that hell is cast into the lake of fire (the rich man will be among them who are in hell) where he will continue to burn and there is nothing in the bible that says that God ever puts out or quenches the lake of fire.

Read 2 Peter chapter 2. You will find that those who fit the discription of ch.2 will suffer darkness "for ever" which also means "an eternity"

So tell me. Would you consider the suffering of eternal darkness a life thatis suffering in eternal darkness? If you don't consider it a life what do you think it is when one suffers for ever/eternally? I guess I should have made myself more clear.

Be BLessed.

The point that I have been referring to is that the state that unrepentant man is in for eternity is NEVER referred to as Life. It is referred to as Death. When Adam sinned he died, in the day he sinned he died. He was separated from God. Life on the other hand is ALWAYS connected to God, the Father, the Spirit, and Jesus.

This idea that sinners are ALIVE in the lake of fire is just not in the Bible. They are DEAD in the lake of fire.

LT

Resurrection does not mean life.

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

LT

[exrockstar]

for all those that preach the Gospel of UNsalvation then realize that you are passing information

that is made from little scriptures here and there. God would of wrote a whole book/epistle of UNsalvation.

Paul would of wrote...."you can lose your salvation and will lose your salvation and here is a huge letter why...."

The gospel of UNsalvation is nowhere in the bible and a huge movement of people have added that to it and are spreading it.

sad but true.

[exrockstar]

You have given us absolutely nothing Exrockstar to back up your position. I have heard both sides of this argument go back and forth since I have been at Worthy, and there are legitimate reasons why people believe both sides. I just happen to dissagree with yours.

good im gald you disagree.

OT beievers took doctrine and complicated it so much that when Christ came many were blind.

in this dispensation, it's so simple that people will complicate it because waaaay it's too easy.

work away!

by the way, as for "i have given you nothing..." i've posted info pages back. i think you are making assumptions.

look through my profile and check my recent posts.

sometimes it's easier to assume than to actually search for information. searching takes time whereas accustations are instantaneous.

[EricH]

Keep it nice saints. In arguing about salvation, lets not demonstrate actions that are inconsistent with our calling

[exrockstar]

You have given us absolutely nothing Exrockstar to back up your position. I have heard both sides of this argument go back and forth since I have been at Worthy, and there are legitimate reasons why people believe both sides. I just happen to dissagree with yours.

good im gald you disagree.

OT beievers took doctrine and complicated it so much that when Christ came many were blind.

in this dispensation, it's so simple that people will complicate it because waaaay it's too easy.

work away!

by the way, as for "i have given you nothing..." i've posted info pages back. i think you are making assumptions.

look through my profile and check my recent posts.

sometimes it's easier to assume than to actually search for information. searching takes time whereas accustations are instantaneous.

When I said you gave nothing, I meant in your last ridiculous post. There wasn't one thing in your argument that was the least bit persuasive. You didn't back up anything you said with facts, and as for going back through your past arguments, I feel confident you took a little here and a little there from the Bible, just like those who dissagree with you did.

Romans 1:

"16I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 17For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[c] just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."[d]

it does seem rediculous and unpersuasive to just believe.

i am not ashamed of it nor care how ignorant it may sound to ask someone to believe.

Righteousness is from God.

"Keeping salvation based off works" is man's view.

so here you complicate it by saying "well if one believes they have to prove it. and you prove it by doing good things. and if we

do good things and study then we keep our salvation. We dont want to lose our salvation....."

Scripture said the gospel is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes."

so spread what your going to spread. its not hurting me at all.

[exrockstar]

James 2:17 "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

no disprespect Butero but i think no one has explained that scripture to you.

even if i did explain it i think that you may not even get what im saying.

you may not even give it a chance.

edited to explain scripture (v14-26): So the Chapter pretty much closes with the attitude that you believe what Christ did

on the cross. He gos on to talk about how you faith is displayed by your attitude. He closes by

saying: 26For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

He never said youve been unsaved. He never said you lost salvation.

He's saying if you have faith then act like it.

but this got bent into a gospel of unsalvation.

[exrockstar]

here is a question for you to keep it simple.

an atheist who has rejected Christ and does not want to hear an ounce

of anything concerning God. Does he have "dead faith?"

[exrockstar]

here is a question for you to keep it simple.

an atheist who has rejected Christ and does not want to hear an ounce

of anything concerning God. Does he have "dead faith?"

He is a fool.

it is a good legitimate question.

in all seriousness...does he have "dead faith?"

[exrockstar]

here is a question for you to keep it simple.

an atheist who has rejected Christ and does not want to hear an ounce

of anything concerning God. Does he have "dead faith?"

He is a fool.

it is a good legitamate question.

in all seriousness...does he have "dead faith?"

God has given every man a measure of faith, but such a man is not using that faith. Romans speaks to the fact that the very creation shows the reality of God. I don't know about the terminology, "dead faith," but he is certainly not using the faith God gave him.

so if you dont know the meaning of "Dead faith" then how you can you quote scripture

to preach unsalvation?

that is the problem.

you can ask me and i will answer my own question. i just wanted to know if you knew what

you quote. i can tell you what i feel it means and you dont have to agree. however, if i enlighten you

then maybe you can still believe in unsalvation but may not reference the "dead faith" scripture IF

I cleared it up.

by the way, i wasnt implying that he was talking to unbelievers. i just wanted to know if you knew what

dead faith was and who has it. and who does not.

[Thaddaeus]

larryt,

The point that I have been referring to is that the state that unrepentant man is in for eternity is NEVER referred to as Life.

I fully understand your understanding. But that unrepentant sinner cannot have an eternity unless he has life, an existance, immortality. He cannot be dust which is the condemnation of man due to Adam. If you want to hold to this position, then show theologically, how you can have a pile of dust being revived to life in order for that person to stand in judgment and then live for an eternity in hell. That is where your view does not align with itself, let alone scripture.

It is referred to as Death.

Yes, spiritual death. A spiritual separation from God, but not in non-existance. He will have life, existance in hell.

When Adam sinned he died, in the day he sinned he died.

yes, he died both deaths immediately. His sin, is a spiritual separation from God, all sin has that characteristic. But he also suffered the condementation that was promised if he did sin, he also died physically. He became mortal which he was not before he sinned. It is this mortality that is inherited, is passed on. We do not inherit sin, or guilt and anything from Adam, except that consequence of his one sin, death.

He was separated from God.

yes, spritually, and permanently because there was no reason for God to have union with man if man was simply going to die after a few years. Man was not created to die.

Life on the other hand is ALWAYS connected to God, the Father, the Spirit, and Jesus.

Yes, it is, that is precisely why Christ needed to restore man nature back to life. Man needed life. Existance. A pile of dust does not have life, is not connected to God. Unless you can also theologically rationalize that life exists in dust. If so, then why would God need to give life to it when he created Adam?

This idea that sinners are ALIVE in the lake of fire is just not in the Bible.

It is the ONLY thing that makes sense. God created Adam from the dust of the earth, THEN BREATHED LIFE INTO HIM. So dust does not have life as you seem to want to say. Christ came PRIMARILY, to restore mankind to life. That is what all the texts I quoted are saying. Man, a human being must have life, existance in order to endure a judgement and live eternally in a spiritual death. You cannot even speak of spiritual death unless one has life.

They are DEAD in the lake of fire.

Spiritually dead, not physically dead. They might desire to not have been redeemed and preserved from destruction, but God was not going to allow Satan to have dominion over His creation. God was not willing that any person, bearing His Image would be destroyed.

Resurrection does not mean life.

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

That is the ONLY thing it does mean - PHYSICAL LIFE. Christ arose from the dead, physical resurrection, so that having borne our fallen natures, restored them to life, physical life, eternal, immortal life.