Zceiv Posted January 14, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 482 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/01/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/02/1991 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Can some one who was given to Jesus,by the Father, go to hell??? Arminian .... yes Calvinist ..... no woot amen Jesus the Christ... no Called of God .....no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehill Posted January 14, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,980 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 14, 2007 Can some one who was given to Jesus,by the Father, go to hell??? Arminian .... yes Calvinist ..... no woot amen Jesus the Christ... no Called of God .....no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddaeus Posted January 14, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 375 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/21/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 14, 2007 nanasimmons, Jesus clearly states that many will not be with Him in Paradise. In John Chapter 10 one must carefully read what Jesus is actually saying. When He is speaking about Himself and His obligation the refers to sheep as the sheep. The shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. However in the verses you used He has already defined the distinction. His Sheep follow Him. No one can pluck them out of His hand, but the individual sheep can wander, and He goes after the lost. Earlier in John 6:39 it is also very clear that Jesus will raise everyone to life eternal. No one will be lost to the judgement of Adam, namely death. The salvation of mankind is from death. Christ overcame death through His Incarnation, death and resurrection. BUT, clearly notice in the next verse 40, He again makes the distinction from general to particular, Those that see the Son of man AND BELIEVE, them also He will raise the last day to everlasting life, life with Him. Notice the distinction between being just raised and eternal life with believing and having everlasting life. There have been some who wondered if some were to go to hell. Without the redemptive work of Christ on the Cross to overcome the fall, there is no need for a heaven nor hell. The sentence of Death given to Adam which we inherit is a permanent state. Only Christ changed that state from death to life for all. Another of your questions is who is responsible? It is quite clear that each individual is responsible for their eternal state. You have a choice, since we have all been redeemed, saved from death, to either believe and have eternal life with Him, or reject Him, (unbelief) and have eternal life apart from Him, Heaven or Hell, it is your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanasimmons Posted January 15, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 335 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/05/1967 Author Share Posted January 15, 2007 There are those who say Millions of unbelievers are going to hell because we keep them from coming to Jesus It's not as black and white as you are trying to make it out to be. Luke's Gospel Chapter 17 records the words of Jesus that can address this very well; Jesus said to his disciples: It is impossible but that offences will come; but woe unto him, through whom they come! 1. It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than he should offend one of these little ones2. Yes, others, and even those in "the church" can cause others to stumble, sin, and end up in apostasy and keep them from knowing Christ, as the interpretations of the words "offend" and "little ones" show. offend s?a?da?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehill Posted January 15, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,980 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 15, 2007 Oh yea, sheep don't go there only goats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanasimmons Posted January 15, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 335 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/05/1967 Author Share Posted January 15, 2007 (edited) There are those who say Millions of unbelievers are going to hell because we keep them from coming to Jesus It's not as black and white as you are trying to make it out to be. Luke's Gospel Chapter 17 records the words of Jesus that can address this very well; Jesus said to his disciples: It is impossible but that offences will come; but woe unto him, through whom they come! 1. It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than he should offend one of these little ones2. Yes, others, and even those in "the church" can cause others to stumble, sin, and end up in apostasy and keep them from knowing Christ, as the interpretations of the words "offend" and "little ones" show. offend s?a?da?? Edited January 15, 2007 by Matthitjah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanasimmons Posted January 15, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 335 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/05/1967 Author Share Posted January 15, 2007 Oh yea, sheep don't go there only goats. Good point Sad but true.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddaeus Posted January 15, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 375 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/21/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 15, 2007 (edited) nanasimmons, there is no distinction. There are only believers and unbelievers. It matters not that it may be Jew, Gentile, rich, poor, male or female, or any other characterization. Having said that, I still disagree that God's power is trumped by man's power..Unto salvation....I don't believe that one of God's true children accidently is in hell because He was not able save him and now he is burning in hell forever unjustly... It's not trumped. It is how we were made, in His Image, He created us that way, and He redeemed us so that we could be freely joined with Him, for an eternity. No one is accidently in Hell or heaven. He redeemed us so that we would be able to make that choice for ourselves, as He created to be able. Adam precluded our having that choice. He specifically saved all of mankind from that judgement of Adam, permanent death, so that we, as Adam had in the Garden, the freedom to either be in union with God or apart from Him. He restored all mankind to fulful that created purpose. There is a just reward for either choice, heaven or hell. He is just because each person that ends in hell so chose that place for himself. Edited January 15, 2007 by Matthitjah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddaeus Posted January 15, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 375 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/21/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 15, 2007 firehill, Oh yea, sheep don't go there only goats. John 10 however is not speaking about goats. You cannot mix metaphors from one use to another and hope that the meaning is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehill Posted January 15, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,980 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 15, 2007 firehill, Oh yea, sheep don't go there only goats. John 10 however is not speaking about goats. You cannot mix metaphors from one use to another and hope that the meaning is the same. I was thinking of a different verse or passage not John 10. Sheep will be separated from the goats.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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