Ovedya Posted January 25, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted January 25, 2007 When Jesus says that the road is NARROW...I'm sure we don't really comprehend just how Narrow that road is...and on the day He says "I never KNEW you", of course there will be pastors, priests,(anyone) many, many people who have devoted their entire lives to Him only to be directed to stand with the goats...NOT the Sheep. I have been studying John 15 for quite some time and it reveals a dimension of living for Followers of the Master that is HARD but not beyond attainable. "I never knew you" means "I never knew you." The Lord knows His sheep and His sheep know Him. It's obvious that there are many nominal Christians out there - Christians who are such in name only, not by actual organic union with the Triune God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lnj Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 To "know" God/Jesus is to have that personal intimate relationship with the Great I AM. The emphasis is on "knew", that intimate, sexual connotation where you are joined together, one,connected....hence connected to the VINE...being Jesus. There was a story I heard a while back...of a little old lady who attended Church for decades, did "good" deeds, was a pillar in society, dressed entirely in black, and was regarded by others in the congretaion to be a Great lady...a little boy had noticed her and observed her over a while..one Sunday after looking at her again, he remarked to his mother, 'Mum, why doesn't that lady EVER SMILE?"...the mother answered, "because she is serious about God ." That little boy grew up with that image in mind of, if that was joy in the Lord and how to look when you have God in your life..no thanks. And that witness to the little boy was without one word utterd to him by the little old lady. I think there are alot of people who think they are sheep because of "good works". The rushing around doing things but having a heart that is not plugged in to the Vine. Very different things indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehill Posted January 26, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,980 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 26, 2007 Jesus refers to them as 'My sheep', and so they are His. He is able as THE Great Shepered to keep His very own sheep which He purposely came for BTW. How could his sheep go to hell? It's an oxymoron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lnj Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Jesus refers to them as 'My sheep', and so they are His. He is able as THE Great Shepered to keep His very own sheep which He purposely came for BTW. How could his sheep go to hell? It's an oxymoron. How do YOU interpret Hebrews CH 6 v 4-8? Why on the Day of Judgement will there be a seperating of the Sheep and the goats? And why will Jesus say to those- "Depart from Me - I never knew YOU."? Would He really have to say all that? There's that word again..KNEW. Matthew 25 v 31 - 46 is Very Interesting and needs to be read with prayer and discernment. Matthew 25 v 41: Jesus says, "Then He will say to those on the left hand," Depart from Me, YOU CURSED, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.".." Hebrews 6 v8: But if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near being CURSED, whose end is to be burned. JOHN 15 v 6: "If anyone does not ABIDE in Me, He is cast out as a branch and is withered, and they gather them and throw them into the fire and they are burned. We must maintain an abiding union(Know/Intimacy) with the Vine(Jesus.) Did Judas Iscariot have Salvation before he betrayed Jesus? The man who sat at the Masters feet and learned from Him? Or was he USED by God as a pawn for God's Master plan? Or did he LOSE his Salvation as Hebrews states can happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lnj Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Matthew 10 v 33: Jesus says - ' But whoever denies and disowns Me before men, I will ALSO DISOWN him before MY Father in Heaven."...:"Depart from Me ..I never Knew you.".... Jesus' WORDS not my own. DISOWN : To refuse to ACKNOWLEDGE as BELONGING or relating to oneself. Man HAS SALVATION up until the point of DENYING Jesus. If you don't believe, check out the Scriptures for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted January 26, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Jesus refers to them as 'My sheep', and so they are His. He is able as THE Great Shepered to keep His very own sheep which He purposely came for BTW. How could his sheep go to hell? It's an oxymoron. How do YOU interpret Hebrews CH 6 v 4-8? Why on the Day of Judgement will there be a seperating of the Sheep and the goats? And why will Jesus say to those- "Depart from Me - I never knew YOU."? Would He really have to say all that? There's that word again..KNEW. Matthew 25 v 31 - 46 is Very Interesting and needs to be read with prayer and discernment. Matthew 25 v 41: Jesus says, "Then He will say to those on the left hand," Depart from Me, YOU CURSED, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.".." Hebrews 6 v8: But if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near being CURSED, whose end is to be burned. JOHN 15 v 6: "If anyone does not ABIDE in Me, He is cast out as a branch and is withered, and they gather them and throw them into the fire and they are burned. We must maintain an abiding union(Know/Intimacy) with the Vine(Jesus.) Did Judas Iscariot have Salvation before he betrayed Jesus? The man who sat at the Masters feet and learned from Him? Or was he USED by God as a pawn for God's Master plan? Or did he LOSE his Salvation as Hebrews states can happen? First, Hebrews 6 outlines the exact thing we are discussing here. It says that it is impossible for those having tasted life in the Spirit to repent from dead works - in other words, they cannot be re-regenerated. There is only one regeneration that takes place the moment a sinner believes into Christ. You can't just pull two verses from an entire passage in which context is given and say, "See that proves it." Second, In Matthew 7 the Lord is speaking about those who do not do the divine will of the Father. The word "knew" in "I never knew you" is Ginosko, which indicates a deep, private and intimate knowledge or understanding. It is also translated as "acknowledge" in Romans 7:15. So therefore those who practiced the things described in Matt. 7:22 did so outside the will of the Father and outside the knowledge and approval of Jesus Christ. The Lord never knew those people. They were never His to begin with. They were only Christians by name, not by life, and not within the divine will and approval of the Triune God. John 15 also shows nomial Christians. Nominal Christians do no abide in the vine, because they are not joined to the vine by life. They may have been grafted into the vine, but they have never partaken of the life of the vine. To be a true believer is to partake and participate in the flow of God's divine life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted January 26, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Matthew 10 v 33: Jesus says - ' But whoever denies and disowns Me before men, I will ALSO DISOWN him before MY Father in Heaven."...:"Depart from Me ..I never Knew you.".... Jesus' WORDS not my own. DISOWN : To refuse to ACKNOWLEDGE as BELONGING or relating to oneself. Man HAS SALVATION up until the point of DENYING Jesus. If you don't believe, check out the Scriptures for yourself. Please refer to my previous posting regarding those words in the Greek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lnj Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 I think we need SHILO on this thread for the meanings in Hebrew. Shilo! You're NEEDED here pronto! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lnj Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Matthew 10 v 33: Jesus says - ' But whoever denies and disowns Me before men, I will ALSO DISOWN him before MY Father in Heaven."...:"Depart from Me ..I never Knew you.".... Jesus' WORDS not my own. DISOWN : To refuse to ACKNOWLEDGE as BELONGING or relating to oneself. Man HAS SALVATION up until the point of DENYING Jesus. If you don't believe, check out the Scriptures for yourself. Please refer to my previous posting regarding those words in the Greek. Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Deny in both instances is from the Greek word arneomai, which means to contradict, i.e. disavow, reject, abnegate: deny, refuse. The word disown is never used in the King James Version of the Bible and doesn't belong there. Like I said the question HAS been answered, this thread has unravelled a long time ago.....It's just turned into an argument for arguments sake.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lnj Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Matthew 10 v 33: Jesus says - ' But whoever denies and disowns Me before men, I will ALSO DISOWN him before MY Father in Heaven."...:"Depart from Me ..I never Knew you.".... Jesus' WORDS not my own. DISOWN : To refuse to ACKNOWLEDGE as BELONGING or relating to oneself. Man HAS SALVATION up until the point of DENYING Jesus. If you don't believe, check out the Scriptures for yourself. Please refer to my previous posting regarding those words in the Greek. Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Deny in both instances is from the Greek word arneomai, which means to contradict, i.e. disavow, reject, abnegate: deny, refuse. The word disown is never used in the King James Version of the Bible and doesn't belong there. Check Amplified Version...Disown IS there right next to Denies. And it belongs.... There are more versions than the King James Version. Amplified Version of the Bible: To bring out the richness of the Hebrew and Greek languages. It's purpose is to REVEAL, TOGETHER with the single English word equivalent to each key Hebrew and Greek word, any other CLARIFYING meanings that may be CONCEALED by the traditional TRANSLATION method. Perhaps for the first time in an ENGLISH VERSION OF THE BIBLE, the FULL MEANING of the KEY WORDS in the ORIGINAL TEXT is AVAILABLE to the reader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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