Guest man Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 man, I asked if it hurts your relationship with the Lord, not someone elses. Using the symbol of crossing yourself is not false teaching. It is a personal choice. "Crossing yourself" is a manmade tradition. I don't know of anywhere in the bible where it says it is required. If I'm wrong, please correct me. Teaching this tradition along with scripture is adding to the Word. If we add to the Word of God, we sin. If someone is taught that this little gesture is required of them, it is indeed a false teaching. Personal choice doesn't make it ok. Idolatry is idolatry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biblicist Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 man, I asked if it hurts your relationship with the Lord, not someone elses. Using the symbol of crossing yourself is not false teaching. It is a personal choice. "Crossing yourself" is a manmade tradition. I don't know of anywhere in the bible where it says it is required. If I'm wrong, please correct me. Teaching this tradition along with scripture is adding to the Word. If we add to the Word of God, we sin. If someone is taught that this little gesture is required of them, it is indeed a false teaching. Personal choice doesn't make it ok. Idolatry is idolatry. You really feel strongly about this. No one said that they were teaching this little gesture as a requirement. Does it not hurt your relationship with the Lord more to allow small, third order doctrines such as this to separate you from other Christians? I am sure if you thought about it long enough, you could think of a few manmade traditions that have been incorporated into your worship service, that, if taught as doctrine, could also be considered false teaching. Order of service comes to mind. Frequency of Communion. Which hymns are acceptable and which are not. Which musical instruments are acceptable. How, when and where to pray. Do you ever wear a cross? Some sort of symbol of Jesus? The Icthus on your car? Is that required of you? Possibly. . . We should in some way equate ourselves with the Lord. Although having a Christian symbol on your car can be a bad thing; especially if have a tendancy to be a bad driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted February 20, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2007 Guess I'm just not as legalistic as some. I don't think making the Sign of the Cross equates "adding to Scripture". It is simply a reminder of whose I am. Yeah, it's a human tradition .......and I am a human. God understands that. He knows that concrete things and symbols help me to break free of my human-ness and turn my heart and spirit heavenward. Jesus used dirt, spittle, bread, wine, to reach our spirits thru our senses. The early Church used the Sign of the Cross. True, the Sign of the Cross is not necessary for salvation. It is a tool I use to help my body connect to my spirit in praise of the Living God! Peace, Fiosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharingTheGoodNews Posted February 20, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 17 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2007 Isn't the goal in each of our lives is to first please God in all things? There are many popular customs that go contrary to Bible teachings. Foreignstance, God warned the Israelites against religious customs of the surrounding nations. Those pagan customs were based on falsehood and misrepresented God and his purpose. See Jeremiah 10:2, Matthew 15:6, Romans 12:2. When customs are rooted in false religion or better known as pagan worship it is wise not to practice it. If you would like information on popular customs that Displease God, please email me at sharingthegoodnews@yahoo.com with "Popular Customs" in the subject. It just might make you go HMMM. Have a great day! Lin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted February 20, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I believe the Spirit gives different gifts to different people and people will worship God in different ways. In some churches people clap along with the music, or dance or lift hands. Other people do not participate in these things. You cannot equate these things with worship. We are commanded by God to worship Him wholly, with our voices, with our bodies in dance and with full participation. There is no option for that. Theses are things we exhort each other to do, but you cannot exhort someone to perform a religious sign, or you are teaching religiosity, which God hates. how does a mute person worship him? why is the habit of holy silence and reflection making music in one's heart and crossing oneself seen as a negative thing? well you have your opinions and you are not going to change mine on this issue. I have to admit it would be weird if someone came to my church and started dancing around during the liturgy. We both serve the same Lord. peace be with you There is a time and place for dance--usually during worship, not the teaching! That WOULD be weird! A mute person worships using every other available part of himself. Holy silence is what? A habit? Crossing oneself must also be a habit? If one feels that they cannot get by without doing it, then they have a peroblem...we are free people, and to be free of such encumbrances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iryssa Posted February 21, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,860 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1984 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I'm posting this again because I don't think it was read, or if it was, it was not addressed. It is not even hinted at in scripture, and is an extra religious activity which has no value except to the feelings of security in the believer. We don't need any security but the full assurance of the promises of God in Christ Jesus. Just because it's an "extra religious activity" doesn't automatically mean it's bad. Also, it does more than give those who practice it feelings of security...that MIGHT be a bi-product of it (but isn't even necessarily so), but first and foremost I think it's an expression of love and worship and respect. How does it have no value? How is any expression of our love for and devotion to God without value?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharingTheGoodNews Posted February 21, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 17 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2007 If I may add. No particular posture or gesture was ever declared on how to pray. But the most common was to kneel indicating humility. Was not Jesus and others exemplary in this regard? Luke 22:39,41: John 11:41; Acts 9:36,40; 21:3-6 Are these Bible teachings or human traditions? You owe it to yourself and your family to be in position to answer these questions confidently and correctly. Check with your Bible, God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Walker Posted February 21, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 19 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/20/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/26/1966 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I echo that there is no Scriptural indication of this motion. A physical crossing of the heart may or not be an expression of one's true heart within, as that is where the primary communication lies between us and Jesus Christ. A crossing of the heart would seem to me more of an outward show than anything else, but I will not say it is wrong to do either. It would all depend on where a person's heart truly was for those who choose to recite this motion of honor. And that's about all it is really, is just a motion. Prayer is the very same way. There is no formal or systemic method needed for prayer. A simple communication with Jesus will suffice in much the same method we use to speak with our own mortal parents. Just talk to Him. Opening statements like Dear Heavenly Father are nice, and they do serve to address Jesus directly rather than one of the many false gods out there, but Jesus already knows who you are addressing ling before you spiritually or verbally utter a word. In fact, He suggested for the most part that we pray to Him in a private setting like a closet. He loves a simple One-on-one conversation, especially given the fact that it releases us from being tempted to address Him for a show amongst men like the Pharisees used to do. Jesus is very simple and basic if we think about it. No need for a standard motion or method here in the Age of Grace at all. Just talk to Him, and do it straight from the heart. For me, it works best that way anyhow. Method or works do not bring us into communication with Him really. Faith, humility, and love is the ticket. The very same mechanisms which brought His most undeserved Grace to us in the first place. Just talk with Him like you would your own father. In Christ, Jim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 You really feel strongly about this. Do you ever wear a cross? Some sort of symbol of Jesus? The Icthus on your car? Is that required of you? Possibly. . . We should in some way equate ourselves with the Lord. I do feel very strongly about this. I see it as a form of idolatry. Wearing a cross....having pictures and statues of Christ.....having that little fish thing on your car....it's all meaningless. It doesn't bring you closer to God, it doesn't mean you're a christian, it doesn't even mean you believe in God. They are just things and things in the eyes of God mean nothing. Making the sign of the cross may not be taught as doctrine but millions of people do it everyday. Where did this behavior come from? Someone had to teach it to them. And why was this brought into the church if it is believed to have no significance? If it doesn't mean anything, why do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iryssa Posted February 21, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,860 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1984 Share Posted February 21, 2007 You really feel strongly about this. Do you ever wear a cross? Some sort of symbol of Jesus? The Icthus on your car? Is that required of you? Possibly. . . We should in some way equate ourselves with the Lord. I do feel very strongly about this. I see it as a form of idolatry. Wearing a cross....having pictures and statues of Christ.....having that little fish thing on your car....it's all meaningless. It doesn't bring you closer to God, it doesn't mean you're a christian, it doesn't even mean you believe in God. They are just things and things in the eyes of God mean nothing. Making the sign of the cross may not be taught as doctrine but millions of people do it everyday. Where did this behavior come from? Someone had to teach it to them. And why was this brought into the church if it is believed to have no significance? If it doesn't mean anything, why do it? PLEASE read my post. It's just up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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