JIME Posted March 18, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 120 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 382 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/17/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/08/1964 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Consider the following situation Two missionaries, totally unfamiliar with each other, plan to preach and teach the Word of God along the banks of the Amazon river in Brazil. One takes the left bank and one takes the right bank but neither is aware of the missionary on the opposite bank. These two brave souls have no denominational ties of any sort, hence they are completely free of all the doctrines and traditions of men. All they have is the Word of God and the Holy Spirit. They are both totally dependant on the Holy Spirit to understand the Word of God since neither of them has a theological background. They are totally on their own and totally unaware of each other. Their only teacher is the Holy Spirit which teaches both equally throughout their long journey up the Amazon. These two missionaries continue up the Amazon to the very headwaters of the mighty Amazon only to find that the headwaters of the Amazon is nothing but a small stream at this point. Both missionaries stay on their respective banks without ever crossing and thereby run the risk of meeting each other. Finally, they come to a tribe that freely hunts and lives on both banks of the Amazon headwaters. The left bank missionary as well as the right bank missonary continue to teach the Word of God to the members of this tribe, each thinking that they are the only missionary teaching the members of this tribe. What would be the outcome of these two separate teaching styles, one from the left bank missionary and one from the right bank missionary on this tribe that is common to both banks of the river? Remember, both missionaries were guided solely by the Holy Spirit and had only the Word of God to teach from and both are totally lacking in any of the doctrines and traditions of any denomination. When the tribal people began to compare notes on what the two missionaries taught, would there be two distinct versions of the Word of God taught, the left bank version and the right bank version, or would both versions be identical? Since the Holy Spirit is leading and teaching them, the versions would be identical. The Holy Spirit was in control and was their influence. He knows what He taught both missionaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabowd Posted March 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 112 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,489 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2007 What if one man was Jonathan Edwards and the other man was Jim Jones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 What if one man was Jonathan Edwards and the other man was Jim Jones? If they were under the influence of the Holy Spirit, it wouldn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabowd Posted March 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 112 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,489 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2007 What if one man was Jonathan Edwards and the other man was Jim Jones? If they were under the influence of the Holy Spirit, it wouldn't matter. My point is, each man believed he was under the influence of the Holy Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 What if one man was Jonathan Edwards and the other man was Jim Jones? If they were under the influence of the Holy Spirit, it wouldn't matter. My point is, each man believed he was under the influence of the Holy Spirit. The opening post stated that the only teacher they had was the Holy Spirit. But I see where you're coming from...so yeah...what if. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabowd Posted March 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 112 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,489 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2007 What if one man was Jonathan Edwards and the other man was Jim Jones? If they were under the influence of the Holy Spirit, it wouldn't matter. My point is, each man believed he was under the influence of the Holy Spirit. The opening post stated that the only teacher they had was the Holy Spirit. But I see where you're coming from...so yeah...what if. The original post states that these two men are lacking in doctrine or "free" of any ties of any doctrine or theology. My point is that this is impossible. It's not possible to escape doctrine. The very idea that the Holy Spirit teaches us about the gospel is a doctrine. The concept that we can rely on Scripture is a doctrine. Doctrines are inescapable. Likewise, we all have presuppositions that affect us. No matter where we're born, in what culture, we are not a "clean slate"....we have worldviews that shape how we see everything else. We are fallen, everything about us is fallen..even our epistemology. In this lifetime we will never achieve 100% accuracy, we can only pursue to grow in wisdom and knowledge and continue to obey His command of renewing our minds for His glory. See what I'm saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted March 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2007 Consider the following situation Two missionaries, totally unfamiliar with each other, plan to preach and teach the Word of God along the banks of the Amazon river in Brazil. One takes the left bank and one takes the right bank but neither is aware of the missionary on the opposite bank. These two brave souls have no denominational ties of any sort, hence they are completely free of all the doctrines and traditions of men. All they have is the Word of God and the Holy Spirit. They are both totally dependant on the Holy Spirit to understand the Word of God since neither of them has a theological background. They are totally on their own and totally unaware of each other. Their only teacher is the Holy Spirit which teaches both equally throughout their long journey up the Amazon. These two missionaries continue up the Amazon to the very headwaters of the mighty Amazon only to find that the headwaters of the Amazon is nothing but a small stream at this point. Both missionaries stay on their respective banks without ever crossing and thereby run the risk of meeting each other. Finally, they come to a tribe that freely hunts and lives on both banks of the Amazon headwaters. The left bank missionary as well as the right bank missonary continue to teach the Word of God to the members of this tribe, each thinking that they are the only missionary teaching the members of this tribe. What would be the outcome of these two separate teaching styles, one from the left bank missionary and one from the right bank missionary on this tribe that is common to both banks of the river? Remember, both missionaries were guided solely by the Holy Spirit and had only the Word of God to teach from and both are totally lacking in any of the doctrines and traditions of any denomination. When the tribal people began to compare notes on what the two missionaries taught, would there be two distinct versions of the Word of God taught, the left bank version and the right bank version, or would both versions be identical? I prayed to the Holy Spirit before posting. I even prayed for guidance whether or not to reply. There are several intrinsic errors in your hypothetical situation. 1. Despite the fact that neither missionary had any Biblical training, they still had different life experiences to draw upon. 2. Unless they were totally surrendered to Jesus, and leading sinless lives, they will hear the Holy Spirit thru their fallen human "ears". 3. and the biggest error.............if they were truly submitted to Christ and able to discern the Spirits voice, they wouldn't be flying solo. They would be fully engaged in, and obedient to, a Church. God bless, Fiosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted March 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2007 What if one man was Jonathan Edwards and the other man was Jim Jones? If they were under the influence of the Holy Spirit, it wouldn't matter. My point is, each man believed he was under the influence of the Holy Spirit. The opening post stated that the only teacher they had was the Holy Spirit. But I see where you're coming from...so yeah...what if. The original post states that these two men are lacking in doctrine or "free" of any ties of any doctrine or theology. My point is that this is impossible. It's not possible to escape doctrine. The very idea that the Holy Spirit teaches us about the gospel is a doctrine. The concept that we can rely on Scripture is a doctrine. Doctrines are inescapable. Likewise, we all have presuppositions that affect us. No matter where we're born, in what culture, we are not a "clean slate"....we have worldviews that shape how we see everything else. We are fallen, everything about us is fallen..even our epistemology. In this lifetime we will never achieve 100% accuracy, we can only pursue to grow in wisdom and knowledge and continue to obey His command of renewing our minds for His glory. See what I'm saying? Precisely! You are wise beyond your years, Kabowd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 What if one man was Jonathan Edwards and the other man was Jim Jones? If they were under the influence of the Holy Spirit, it wouldn't matter. My point is, each man believed he was under the influence of the Holy Spirit. The opening post stated that the only teacher they had was the Holy Spirit. But I see where you're coming from...so yeah...what if. The original post states that these two men are lacking in doctrine or "free" of any ties of any doctrine or theology. My point is that this is impossible. It's not possible to escape doctrine. The very idea that the Holy Spirit teaches us about the gospel is a doctrine. The concept that we can rely on Scripture is a doctrine. Doctrines are inescapable. Likewise, we all have presuppositions that affect us. No matter where we're born, in what culture, we are not a "clean slate"....we have worldviews that shape how we see everything else. We are fallen, everything about us is fallen..even our epistemology. In this lifetime we will never achieve 100% accuracy, we can only pursue to grow in wisdom and knowledge and continue to obey His command of renewing our minds for His glory. See what I'm saying? I see exactly what you're saying. But in this situation the 2 gentlemen were lead by the Holy Spirit. It was the Holy Spirit who was doing the teaching, not the individuals. So the message that was being preached had to be nothing less then pure. See what I'm saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabowd Posted March 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 112 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,489 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2007 What if one man was Jonathan Edwards and the other man was Jim Jones? If they were under the influence of the Holy Spirit, it wouldn't matter. My point is, each man believed he was under the influence of the Holy Spirit. The opening post stated that the only teacher they had was the Holy Spirit. But I see where you're coming from...so yeah...what if. The original post states that these two men are lacking in doctrine or "free" of any ties of any doctrine or theology. My point is that this is impossible. It's not possible to escape doctrine. The very idea that the Holy Spirit teaches us about the gospel is a doctrine. The concept that we can rely on Scripture is a doctrine. Doctrines are inescapable. Likewise, we all have presuppositions that affect us. No matter where we're born, in what culture, we are not a "clean slate"....we have worldviews that shape how we see everything else. We are fallen, everything about us is fallen..even our epistemology. In this lifetime we will never achieve 100% accuracy, we can only pursue to grow in wisdom and knowledge and continue to obey His command of renewing our minds for His glory. See what I'm saying? I see exactly what you're saying. But in this situation the 2 gentlemen were lead by the Holy Spirit. It was the Holy Spirit who was doing the teaching, not the individuals. So the message that was being preached had to be nothing less then pure. See what I'm saying? Are they fallen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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