Guest Biblicist Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Actually it is hurting the soldiers. We are dealing with an enemy that is not talking about exit strategies. They are in this to win, while we are looking for a way out. This tells the Islamic terrorists that America can be defeated. It makes them think that America is not so strong after all. You see, in their minds, they will win. To them, it is an inevitable fact. It does not matter if it it 20 years down the road. Many of them realize that they may not be alive to see the victory, but they believe it will happen so it does not matter them if it happens in their lifetime or not. They are 100% committed to victory, and America is not. Our withdraw now, will only embolden them, and as we implement a phased withdraw, it will only increase the attacks, and may end up bringing more of it on our soil When Israel withdrew from Gaza it was seen by the terrorists as an affirmation to them, that terrorism works. Israel has completely different reasons for withrdrawing, but the terrorists were content in believing that Israel withdrew because they couldn't take it anymore. Since then, terrorism did not decrease as was predicted. Terrorism and violence agaisnt Israelis only escalated. The minute you give an inch to these terrorists, that will justify, in their minds, killing you for rest of it. Giving in, running away, historically only emboldens Islaimic terrorists. Our soldiers are being killed in greater number thanks ot increased calls for withdraws. We could win and win big, but we want to fight anti-septic wars where no innocent people get killed, and that is simply unrealistic. If we really want to win, we have to make the price tag higher than the terrorists want to pay. On this point I agree with you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biblicist Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 My son said he heard they were burning the American Flag, is that true and is that legal? I cannot post the link on this board, but yes, in Oregon, there are anti-war protesters who are burning the flag AND are burning effigies of American solidiers as well. They stuffed a military BDU uniform and attacked a skull to it and burned it along with the flag. Along with signs that "f*** the troops." If you want, I can PM you the link. Oh goodness, I don't know if I want to see that, but thank you for the information. I realize people are entitled to their opinion but there are certain things you just don't do. How can they think that is making things better? So much hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lorax Posted March 24, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 183 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,892 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/07/1985 Share Posted March 24, 2007 (edited) Actually it is hurting the soldiers. We are dealing with an enemy that is not talking about exit strategies. They are in this to win, while we are looking for a way out. Do you remember Vietnam, Shiloh? Do you think we shouldn't have backed out, because pulling out soldiers was emboldening the Viet Cong? This tells the Islamic terrorists that America can be defeated. Two important facts: (1) The Iraq War was not waged against terrorists, it was waged against Saddam Hussein and his supposed nuclear arsenal. (2) But you're right, terrorists are watching. And we've already done quite a bit to embolden them. Mishandling the war, for one. The president lying to his own people about the reasons for war in the first place. Destroying America's international reputation as a PEACEKEEPER, not a troublemaker. We could win and win big, but we want to fight anti-septic wars where no innocent people get killed, and that is simply unrealistic. "Win BIG"? I like your optimism, but it's bordering on fantasy. We can't change the past. We can't change the false premises of this war, and we can't change the historical mishandling of it. The best we can hope for is SOME MEASURE of stability in Iraq when we leave. To minimize our losses and save face as best we can. War isn't a game of chicken. You don't "stay the course" when the course is wrong. You correct the course. Edited March 24, 2007 by The Lorax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Then I guess you would agree that it was a stupid mistake to go into Iraq in the first place because it exposed our weaknesses, right? So now what do we do? We can't stay there forever and we can't kill all the terrorists because we are the ones creating more and more of them. This is fact. There are ONLY two options. Inact the draft and send the over whelming force needed to secure the country, or get out and work on diplomacy. Which do you propose? Like I said, there is only way to win over the terrorists. We have to make the price for terrorism higher than they want to pay. It is the liberals making us look weak. It is the calls for withrdraw that make us look weak and embolden the terrorists. Furthermore, it is nothing but conjecture to say we are creating more terrorists. Islam has always employed murder and bloodlust to accomplish its goals. That is how it spread itself all over Asian continent. We label it as terrorism. For them, it is their righteousness. So then tell me what was gained by taking Gaza? Seems to me the only thing anyone got out of it was more death, more destruction and more loss of standing. Do you see a pattern yet? Israel took Gaza away from Egypt during the Six-Day War because Egypt, who was in control of Gaza for 19 years, used it as base of operations from which to attack Israel. Israel took Gaza in self-defense and remained there to preven the territory to be used again for the purporse of attacking Israel. The liberals in the US and Europe consistently maintained that if Israel would just withdraw, it would go a long way toward peace, and that it would allow the Palestinians to begin setting up their much anticipated "nation." Israel, as a gesture to the Palestinians left up most of the structures including greenhouses where many of them were employed when they were working for the Jews. These greenhouses possessed extremely advanced technology and would have provided food for the Palestinian people, not to mention a means of income by of exporting goods to other nations. The Palestinians burned down most of the 3,000 greenhouses, instituted gang/turf warfare, complete with checkpoints manned by young boys carrying machine guns. The checkpoints (the ones the media overlooks) extort mony from fellow Palestinians just so they can go to work or go to their home. So, not only has it been worse for the Palestinians but it has also become infested by the likes of Al Qaeda (something the EU and the US did not anticipate). All of the promises of peace and an easier life for Israel never materialized, and now reports have come in that Egypt is helping to arm terrorist factions in Gaza. Furthermore, Israel is subjected by daily nonstop Qassam rocket attacks from Gaza. In just 10 months from Israel's withdraw there were over 1,000 rockets fired into Israel, and this does not include the increased terrorism that was being imported from the West Bank after the withrdaw as well. Israel's presence was good for the Palestinians. Many of them are now without jobs and are being murderd by fellow Palestinians. Interestingly, the world only cares about the Palestinians' problems when they can pin them on Israel. Gaza is now a hot bed of violence, murder, corruption and anarchy and is also a haven for terrorist groups. The withdraw from Gaza without the complete removal terrorist factions was mistake and it has hurt Israel and it has hurt the Palestinians. So now we set our policies according to what the terrorists want? If people like you stop calling it retreat, running away, surrendering, giving up and call it what it is, strategic redeployment, then the terrorists don't win. It's YOU and people LIKE YOU that give the terrorists what they want. They WANT us to stay bogged down in Iraq, because it weakens us in every sense of the word. Try thinking. No we set our policies according to what will destroy the terrorists. We set our policies according to what enable us to win and to win decisively enough that it sends a strong message. It won't prevent terrorism, but if we would fight to win, there would be no "bogged down" situation where Iraq is concerned. I am not calling it "retreat" or "running away" necessarily. I am relating how the terrorists see it. They see it has weakness, and it emboldens them. When we call for a withdraw, it tells them, at least in their minds that their tactics are working, and that Amerca has no grit. No, the terrorists are not really wanting us to be bogged down, that is not their agenda, necessarily. Their agenda is victory. That is what they want. They want to prove to the world that the US is a paper tiger and does not have the stomach for war. They, on the other hand, have no intention of withdrawing and are willing to fight for 1,000 years if that is what it takes to win. They are in it for the long haul, and we are not. You really are lost aren't you. Our soldiers have been getting killed in great numbers for the entirety of this war. Yes, they have beenkilled in great numbers. What I said is that we are seeing larger numbers killed per attack in an increasing rate. The terrorists are more committed now than ever, particularly since they see a withdraw in the very near future. It simply follows the pattern of increasing the violence in face of perceived weakness. If we really want to win, we have to make the price tag higher than the terrorists want to pay. And how do you propose we do that? By staying the course? You know what France did? When Muslim terrorists threatened to blow up the Notre Dame Cathedral, France responded that if there is attack on Notre Dame that France would destroy Mecca. Fortunately, the terrorists decided that bombing the Cathedral was a bit overrated. France found something that the terrorists cared more about than terrorism, and when they made a certifiable threat, the terrorists decided not to gamble on calling France's bluff. It was not a chance they were willing take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 As much as I support the first amendment...I can not condone the burning of effigies of U.S. soldiers and I find it disgusting. This crosses the line from speech to incitement to do bodily harm which is a crime. and though I support the 1st Amendment also this is a good indication of who the protestors really are. They are generallly old partiers looking for new anarchy. It's a midlife crisis that makes them feel like they are still living in the 60s Decent people have been babysitting these selfish crybabies since then... Until our enemies know that we are in this to win it, they know they can just wait until a Democrat administration comes to power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biblicist Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 We lost over 400,000 American troops in WWII, avenging Pearl Harbor, where less Americans lost their lives than 9/11. . . Am I saying we should allow that many Americans die avenging 9/11? NO, what I am saying is. . . Let them do their jobs, the job they have been trained for. Protecting our borders from attack. Support the troops and support their mission! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lorax Posted March 24, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 183 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,892 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/07/1985 Share Posted March 24, 2007 and though I support the 1st Amendment also this is a good indication of who the protestors really are. They are generallly partiers looking to for anarchy Decent people have been babysitting these selfish crybabies the 60s More overwhelming ignorance. Don't take a small minority of protestors (the ones that burn flags and effigies) and expand it to the whole. Just so you can sweep aside their voices. Many of the protesters are WAR VETERANS. They know what it's like. I have two friends in Iraq right now and they say, when they get back, they will join the protests, because we shouldn't be there. Why is it that you have to discredit people who disagree with you? Can't you just disagree with them, not try to slander them as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Hamburgers! Posted March 24, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,144 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 163 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/02/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1985 Share Posted March 24, 2007 We lost over 400,000 American troops in WWII, avenging Pearl Harbor, where less Americans lost their lives than 9/11. . . Am I saying we should allow that many Americans die avenging 9/11? NO, what I am saying is. . . Let them do their jobs, the job they have been trained for. Protecting our borders from attack. Support the troops and support their mission! 9/11 has nothing to do with Iraq. I SUPPORTED the troops AND the mission in Afghanistan. This is a different mission that I do not and never have supported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Let's say we stay the course and win in Iraq. By win I mean having Iraq in a place where they have a stable government that is able to keep the people secure and to put down insurgencies and the type of violence which is going on now. IOW a government that is stable enough to keep Iraq relatively peaceful. I think we can all agree that this would be a good thing. What next? Most of the terrorist on 911 were Saudi's. Muslim terrorists can be from any country on earth. How will this can ever be resolved. 2 generations of my family have already fought in this war on terror. Should the expectation be that my grandchildren or even greatgrandchildren may find themselves in some Muslim country as well? The unfortunate truth that no one wants to say or believe is that, yes, we are in a war (like it or not) that is going to last AT LEAST a generation. I thank your family for being part of the solution instead of being useful idiots for fascists. And I pray that our grandchildren and greatgrandchildren aren't forced to study the Koran and wear burkas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lorax Posted March 24, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 183 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,892 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/07/1985 Share Posted March 24, 2007 (edited) "9/11 has nothing to do with Iraq." ^ Correct. Some people just like to lump everything together whenever it's convenient for their political ideology. That or they are totally clueless. Edited March 24, 2007 by The Lorax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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