Guest man Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Anyone here believe we should bring the troops home? If so....why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Hamburgers! Posted March 18, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,144 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 163 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/02/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1985 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Really! Well the simple fact is that my sons and other peoples sons and daughters are over there to kill the enemy. So tell me again, how you support them killing the enemy and that you don't support the war. The two are not separable! The troops are over there to kill the enemy? Funny, I thought they were over there to maintain the peace. I would rather the troops be safe and not be put into the situation they are in. If they have to fight, I hope that they are safe, and I hope that they can win their fights. But I do not support the war, as in the political conflict that involves our troops in the first place. They are seperable, I support one and don't support the other. I support the people being used by the war, but I don't support the reason we have them there. IF your looking for morality in war your looking in the wrong places. War is Amoral. It is neither evil nor good. It is just war. It is necessary at times and avoided most times. War is 'amoral'?? Where did you get this idea? War is NEVER the best option. War and violence is the failure of diplomacy and politics. It is when human thinking breaks down from rationality and ends in brute force. Now, there are times where war breaks out because one side cannot be reasoned with, and has poor intentions for others. There are extremists. There are things called "just wars". Just wars are NOT good, they are still bad. But they represent the last resort. I personally do not view this Iraq conflict as a "just war". I am amazed with your idea of war being neither good nor bad. If I could pick violence or diplomacy, I would pick diplomacy every chance I could. With all due respect to my friend Ham, it is offensive to make those kinds of statements, especially when you have or had family members serving. I am trying to be as respectful as possible. Once again, I don't want anyone to get hurt. I wish safety to all of our troops in Iraq. I hope they all are safe, and can all come back in one piece. But the cause is what I disagree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 19, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Yes but they are working for God. That's debatable. Is it that debatable? Christianity has long had the concept of a just war. Can you name any denominations that have endorsed the Iraq War as a just war? Let me respond by throwing a question back at you - since the "Christian" protest began in the National Cathedral . . . When was the last time the Gospel was actually preached at the National Cathedral? (I was sure pulling my hair out at the nationally televised services from there when the bishop or whatever he's called didn't even speak the name of Jesus in prayer!) Second question . . . what denominations do you believe are being represented on this Board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckthesystem Posted March 19, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1,706 Topics Per Day: 0.26 Content Count: 3,386 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/12/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/10/1955 Author Share Posted March 19, 2007 Yes but they are working for God. Which is more important to you? No they weren't, they were working for their own agenda. IF they had been working for God they would have obeyed the laws. When you say "the laws", I guess you must mean "the laws of man" because the laws of God tell us "thou shalt not kill". Of course it is possible to support the US troops without supporting the war. I don't suppose anyone here would wish the troops any harm, they are just doing what troops do, and are being used and sacrificed as "pawns" by the government. Unfortunately some people blindly trust the government just like a small child trusts his parents. So they slavishly support the government's political agenda without question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giaour Posted March 19, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 179 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,941 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/28/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/08/1964 Share Posted March 19, 2007 No, the laws of God says do not murder. Premeditated with malice is forbidden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubal-Cain Posted March 19, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 448 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1981 Share Posted March 19, 2007 IF your looking for morality in war your looking in the wrong places. War is Amoral. It is neither evil nor good. It is just war. If you truly believe that war is amoral then you have to admit that in WWII the Axis and the Allies were morally equivalent. Of course this would be an absurd conclusion to reach and hence we must dispense with the notion that war is amoral. War may be hell but there are just wars and unjust wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubal-Cain Posted March 19, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 448 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1981 Share Posted March 19, 2007 With all due respect to my friend Ham, it is offensive to make those kinds of statements, especially when you have or had family members serving. What about the troops in Iraq who want us to withdraw? Don't you think pro-war comments are offensive to them? The fact is that both sides are offending someone so don't take it personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 19, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Unfortunately some people blindly trust the government just like a small child trusts his parents. So they slavishly support the government's political agenda without question. Just so that I understand you a bit better - do you believe in anarchy? If not, then what do you propose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubal-Cain Posted March 19, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 448 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1981 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Let me respond by throwing a question back at you - since the "Christian" protest began in the National Cathedral . . . When was the last time the Gospel was actually preached at the National Cathedral? (I was sure pulling my hair out at the nationally televised services from there when the bishop or whatever he's called didn't even speak the name of Jesus in prayer!) I am not familiar with the National Cathedral so I will not comment on it. Second, I doubt everyone attending for the anti-war protest was a member of the National Cathedral. I refuse to judge people who I know nothing about. My point is that I can't imagine there being much debate about whether the Iraq War met the definition of a just war that has been a part of Christianity for centuries. Regardless of whether the protesters fit your definition of a Christian their beliefs about the Iraq War seem consistent with just war theory. Second question . . . what denominations do you believe are being represented on this Board? I'm sure there are many denominations who have posters on this board. However, most seem to be American which will result in quite a bias in this case. But I'm looking for official statements by different denominations. For example, the Vatican was clearly against this war. Look at the foresight on the part of the Vatican before the Iraq War even began: A Vatican envoy who met with President Bush Wednesday said he "clearly and forcefully" conveyed a message from Pope John Paul II that a war against Iraq would be a "disaster." "You might start, and you don't know how to end it," said Cardinal Pio Laghi said after his half-hour meeting at the White House. "It will be a war that will destroy human life. Those people that are suffering already in Iraq, they will be in a really bad situation." Are you aware of any denomination that was/is officially for the Iraq War? If not then it seems that there is little debate on the matter in Christendom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Hamburgers! Posted March 19, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,144 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 163 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/02/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1985 Share Posted March 19, 2007 No offense, buck, but God ordained the government to be over people. That is the way His plan is set up. *snip* "Let every power be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God; the powers that are ordained of God." Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordances of God; and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same. For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afaid; for he beareth not the sword in vain; for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore, ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake." ****************************************************************************** So rulers are ordained by God, is that how I gather your arguement Tmrfiles? If I interpreted it incorrectly, please let me know. We can either stay the course in Iraq and win this war, or we can fight it here in America, which is sure to come if we cut and run as the peace pacifists and commies from the left would have us do. Do you believe that the war in Iraq will determine the outcome of Islam in the world? If you know of a quick fix to the evil of islam, feel free to share them with our President. What would your fix to Islam be exactly? If you were in a position of power right now, what would you do concerning Islam? I'm honestly very curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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