2 Thess 2

[Guest choobaca]

Hi All,

This is an in depth study of 2 Thess from a postrib point of view. It is rather long, so I'll split it in multiple messages. Please be encouraged to read the additional texts references given before you continue in message. This will take some time, but will be beneficial.

For those of pretrib persuasion..... I am not trying to persuade you. Just want you to understand why postrib believes what it believes. Please read all posts before you comment, refute, or have any questions. This message deals with more than just 2 Thess.

Be blessed....

2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-12

PRELUDE:

(DA 12:4); "MANY SHALL RUN TO AND FRO AND KNOWLEDGE SHALL BE INCREASED".

This phrase does not speak of mobility of travel, but the book of Daniel was to be a "sealed" book till the time of the end or the "Latter Days" which literally began after Pentecost when Peter quoted from (Joel 2),

"run to and fro" is the searching out of the prophetic scriptures from the now revealed books of the New Testament .

"Knowledge shall be increased" and now they reveal what Daniel had to seal.

"The many" are the wise in the Latter Days who desire to search these things out.

(vs. 10) "Many", as well as wise servants, can also be interpreted as many (things) shall be purified (made clear), and made white (plain), and tried (understood). So the book of Daniel and the book of Revelation are companions of end things.

The book of Revelation as well as the whole bible, has four main stars in the cast.

1) The Redeemer (Christ) "the seed" and his "seed" (us),

2) The enemy (Satan) and his seed. see: (Gen 3:15).

3) God the Father is the executive producer .

4) The Holy Spirit is the director.

In this study, we want to focus on the starring roll of Satan's seed, the Antichrist.

Vines dictionary (grk. Antichristos, strongs 500) denotes: "against Christ" or "instead" or in place of Christ, or perhaps a combination of ; "one who, assumes the guise of Christ, and opposes Christ". The word it self is found only in John's epistles.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

note: Only two Kingdoms in the universe and both are spiritual in nature. see: (Col 1:12,13)

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

note: There is a particular person in (1Jn 2:18). There are other persons who deny the Father and the Son. see: (1Jn 2:22).

Summary

There is "The Spirit of Antichrist". see: (1 Jn 4:3).

And they are all liars, deceivers, and they were already in the world of John's day and he said that it was "the last time" or the last days. If we were to get dogmatic, we would have to end our study here, for the word "Antichrist" is absent from the rest of scripture. But as is the rest of the cast, there are many more names and allusions to the man "Antichrist".

Example:

Jesus is both the Lion and the Lamb; the Saints are the Elect and the Church; the wicked are ungodly and the children of darkness; the Antichrist is also the "man of sin, the son of perdition".

A change in labels is not always a change in content.

Cont'd

[Guest choobaca]

Part 2 of 2 Thess 2:1-12

And now for our text:

2 Thes 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,

note: Another term for the rapture.

2 Thes 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. = (DAY OF THE LORD)

note: Pretrb. say that the Day of Christ is at the rapture before the 70th week of Daniel and that the Day of the Lord is the Second Coming or the Glorious return of Christ at the end of the 70th week. But if Christ is the Lord, are there really two second comings ? Search the scriptures on the two phrases to see if they are not the same day spoken of!

(Isa 2:12; 13:6, 9; 34:4 10; 61:2; 63:4) / (Jer 46:10) / (Eze 13:5; 30:3) / (Joel 1:15; 2:1,11; 3:14) / (Amos 5:18, 20) / (Obad 1:15) / (Zeph 1:7,14) / (Zech 14:1) / (Mal 4:5) / (Mat 7:22; 24:36; 26:29) / (Lk 10:12; 17:24,31; 21:34) / (John 14:20) / (1Cor 1:8; 5:5) / (2Cor 1:14) / (Phil 1: 6,10; 2:16) / (1Thes 5:2) / (2Thes 1:10; 2:2) / ( 2Ti 1:12,18; 4:8) / (2Pet 3:10,12)

2 Thes 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Thes 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2 Thes 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

2 Thes 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

2 Thes 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

2 Thes 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:

2 Thes 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2 Thes 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2 Thes 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

note: This is literally "the" lie (definite article). The lie is the same as Satan proclaimed to our first parents; That man could be his own god without dependence on the living God.

2 Thes 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Cont'd

[Guest choobaca]

Cont'd Part 3 of 2Thess 2:1-12

This is the second letter Paul writes to this Church, and it seems that what he wrote in (1Thes.4) had been misunderstood in regards to the second coming of the Lord. This resulted in undue excitement amongst believers.

(vs1) Paul beseeches or intreats or urges strongly for this Church to hear his exposition. The two subjects are the "Coming of the Lord" and "Our Gathering to Him".

VINES 'COMING' DEF.= (Greek_3952. parousia, par oo see' ah); from the pres. part.of (3918 Grk) a being near, i.e. advent (often, return; spec. of Christ to punish Jerusalem, or finally the wicked); (by impl.) phys. aspect: coming, presence.

Note: this word for "coming" is not a secret coming. It is the word used for the appearing of a dignitary where every eye would see him. According to Vines dict. it denotes both an "arrival" and consequent "presence with". This is the same word used in (1Thes 4:15, 5:23) / (1 Co 15:23),

(Ja 5:7,8) / (2 Pe 3:4) / ( Mt 24:3,27,37) / (1 Th 3:13) / (1 Jn 2:28). An in depth reading of these verses will show that this word is used for the "Glorious return of the Lord" which is "after the trib. of those days " (Mat 24:29 31). There is no place in scripture where this coming is stated, time wise, before the trib. of those days. (see Strongs for complete list of the verses using this word). Let scripture interpret scripture. The "gathering" is the same as "caught up together with them" in (1 Th 4:17). Also the same as the "wheat and tares" in ( Mt 13:37 43). "the net" in (Mt 13:47 51). and "the gathering" of the elect in (Mt 24:31); and note the timing of this gathering in (Mt 24:29). It's "after the trib. of those days".

Question?

If there is another or previous secret "coming" (that only the church sees), where is it in scripture? Make a list of verses that state the above, and verses that state His "Glorious Return". NOW by the Grk. show the difference between them. Remember, the word "parousia" means the visible presence of the king or dignitary. A picture of this is seen in Christ's triumphal entry to Jerusalem on the donkey;see ( Zec 9:9), ( Mt 21:5).

And at His second coming, He'll be riding on a white horse; (Rev 19:11). His"first coming" was for salvation; the "second coming" is for judgment.

Remember the command to "rightly divide the word of truth" (2Ti 2:15).

(vs 2) hinges on the beseeching of (vs 1) "to the end that" they would not be soon or quickly "shaken" (as a sea agitated by a storm), in their mind (their mental apprehension of the "parousia" of the Lord).

1) either by spirit or prophetic utterance. (false prophets)

2) either by word or teaching. (false teachers)

3) either by epistle or a possible misunderstanding on their part regarding Paul's first epistle, or a possible forged letter by others who would deceive them to believe the apostle sent one.

That the Day of Christ is at hand or that it is imminent. The picture here is one of a wave of the sea at it's highest crest but it hasn't broke yet, but it is inevitable that it will, in the next instant come crashing down. It should be noted here that many teach that "the Day of Christ" is not same as "the Day of the Lord", (see list of ref. above).

note: In (2Ti 4:6 8), that Paul was not looking for an imminent rapture, but "that day" somewhere in the future. Or he would have said: "I hope the Lord takes us out before Nero takes my head off".

Read: (2Pe 3:10,12) / (Jude 1:6) / (Rev 6:17) / (Rev 16:14).

Note also that Paul refers to the Day of Christ as being the same as the (parousia) or coming of (vs 1).

(vs 3) "let no man deceive you"

this is a familiar phrase that has already been stated by Jesus in (Mt 24:4) "take heed that no man deceive you"

note: that it is a command. Paul here shows us that we have a choice in being deceived. And this word is especially for us today, even from the pulpit. How important it should be for us to search the scriptures daily. (Acts 17:11). So that we don't "strain at a gnat", (the church "will" go thru the trib.) and "swallow (a seven year) camel", (the church will "not" go thru the trib.)

The phrase "that day shall not come" is in italics and is not part of the text but is added for undrstanding that the subject here is still "the day that Jesus comes for us the second time". We are still living in the shadow of His first coming for each of us, for this is still "the day of salvation" and it will end "at that day".

The phrase "falling away" is transliterated apostacy, or a departure from something that was held as truth. see: (MT 24:10 12); and (1TI 4:1)

note: It is not the RAPTURE AS SOME TEACH. (KNOW YOUR "STRONGS" AND "VINES")

The word "and" this is a connecting word that something else also has to happen "before" Jesus can come. Hence,... "that man of sin be revealed"

The word "reveal" (Grk.) "apokalupto" means to uncover or unveil; literally to unwrap a package.

The phrase "the son of perditon" a man of God put it this way: "he not merely has sin and falls into destruction, but sin and destruction proceeds from him as its' source and he drags others into sin and destruction after him".

note also: the article "the" (not "a" man or "a" son.). It means that this man is a definite person and a soon to be known personality. Jesus uses "son of perdition" in relation to Judas Iscariot in (Jn17:12), who was an anti type of this future coming one. The word "perdition" is also used in (Phil. 1:28) / (1Ti 6:9) / (He 10:39) / (2Pe 3:7) / (Rev 17:8,11).

The NIV bible calls "him" the man of lawlessness, doomed to ruin or destruction. To sum up we can say sin predominates and is the principle matter and that sin is personified in this man "antichrist" as righteousness is personified in the man "Christ Jesus".

(vs 4) "who opposeth and exalteth" Who or whom does he oppose? Not the human race, but God and especially Christ for he is "antichrist" and a caricature of Christ.

"above all (or against all) that is called God, or that is worshipped".

note: not only against the true God, but all heathen gods and idols as well. So that he sets himself up as the "only" object of worship.

In (Da 11:36 38), we read:

Daniel 11:36 and the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

Daniel 11:37 neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Daniel 11:38 but in his estate shall he honour the god of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

Interesting note to (vs 38) is (1Ki 10:14)

1 Kings 10:14 now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was "six hundred threescore and six" talents of gold. Could this be "his god" and better yet, is this the answer to the riddle of (Rev 13:18) ?

Rev 13:18 here is wisdom. let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is "six hundred threescore and six".

The phrase "sitteth in the temple of God" if this is to be taken literally, then a future tribulation temple will be built either before the 70th week begins or during the first 3 1/2 years of the week. On the other hand, if it is to be taken metaphorically, then the temple is likened to the body as stated by Jesus in (Jn 2:21); and also, the church is the temple of God. see: (1Co 3:17).

But according to Jesus in:

Matthew 24:15 when ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

note: He mentions the "holy place" which speaks of locality and He also said "when you see" so it seems that a place of worship will be present at this time. so what Paul meant remains with God but the important teaching here is that this man places himself in the room only designated for God.

(vs 5) "remember I told you" (paraphrase); Paul told them these things orally on his previous visit.

note: the order; first the spoken word and then the written word.

(vs 6) because of the above reminder, he tells them that "they know what or who witholdeth (restrains)" the still future "revealing" of antichrist, and note: "in his time" because we were not there to here what Paul told them orally, we can only rely on something else in scripture, but know that this is one of God's gray areas, not to Him but to us. We cannot be dogmatic about the interpretation or it will turn into false doctrine.

The phrase "in his time" this can be best explained that to everything "under" heaven, there is a time or a season. (Ecc 3) and that nothing will happen "until" the Lord says so. He is still and always will be sovereign or in control.

An example of this is:

Gal 4:4 but when the "fulness of the time" was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

In other words, Jesus did not enter our humanity one moment too soon or one moment late. but He came in the "fulness of time". And we can thus believe that this principle will hold true in other scripture dealing with time frames. Think about your own salvation. You were saved at a particular moment in time. Only God knew exactly when you would say yes to the Lord's choice of you.

see also: (Da 11:29).

(vs 7) "for" this is a connecting word or better said; because of this "the mystery of iniquity" is already at work, but for it to come into full bloom, the restrainer, whoever or whatever, must cease it's restraining influence. (my paraphrase) the word "mystery", simply means something hidden, or in this case, shrouded behind the scene. Paul could be reffering to antichrist himself. For he links this word with "iniquity" or lawlessness. Or he could mean that the "spirit" of antichrist is already in the world,

see: (1Jn 4:3); for Satan, who we are told, will be empowering this man much like we are empowered by the Holy Spirit. As there is the triunity of the Godhead, there will also be an unholy triunity; Satan, the antichrist, and the second beast or the false prophet of (Rev 13). Remember that Satan can and does counterfeit the things of God. The world will be looking for a messiah and Satan will oblige.

see: (Jn 5:43).

And now for the hardest section of our text. Who or what is the restrainer? We don't know! but what we do know, is that the phrase is in the masculine tense in Grk. and therefore is a person or a personality.

Cont'd

[Guest choobaca]

Cont'd Part 4 of 2 Thess 2:1-12

Various interpretations:

1) The Holy Spirit

Those of the pretrib. persuasion believe that the church will not even see antichrist and will be removed at the beginning of the 70th week. thus: they say that since the Holy Spirit dwells in the church; when the church is removed, the Holy Spirit will stop restraining antichrist; and seemingly be raptured to Heaven. They have no scriptural evidence for this. Only a belief via circular reasoning.

The Holy Spirit is: a reprover to the world of sin, righteousness and of judgment. see: (Jn 16:8 11). The Holy Spirit "bade" Paul to go. (Acts 11:12). The Holy Spirit "forbade" Paul to preach the word in Asia.The Holy Spirit convicts, leads, fills, speaks, comforts, teaches, brings the word to our rememberance, and can be grieved but He is never called a restrainer of evil. The other problem with the Holy Spirit being removed, is that He is not bound by space or locality for He is omnipresent. Furthermore, how does anyone get saved during the 70thweek without the Holy Spirit, for it is He who baptizes the new convert into the body of Christ. And even pretribbers believe that there will be others saved during that period of time.

2) The Lord

In (Job ch.1) we find that the Lord built a hedge around His servant to fence out Satan. The word "Lord" here is "Yahwah" or our transliteration "Jehova". When God removed His restraining hand, then and only then could Satan touch Job and even that was restricted or limited by the Lord. In (Rev 20); an angel restrains or binds Satan in the abyss, forcing the serpent to a prolonged sabbatical.

3) civil government

Some scholars believe that the laws of the land and those that enforce them, is the restrainer. This could fit the context dealing with iniquity and antichrist being called "the lawless one". Jesus also said: "that because iniquity would abound, the love of many would wax or grow cold. see: (Mt 24:12). Paul also notes to Timothy that evil men would get worse and worse. Let's just suppose, that if anarchy would erupt world wide, who would hesitate to welcome a messiah who said he could make the "boo boo" better? Although this is conjecture, it is plausable.

4) Michael the archangel

I know what you are thinking, I felt the same way when I heard it. But nevertheless, it just may fit.

Some expositors say that the phrase:

Daniel 12:1 and at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of Thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time Thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Stand up means to stand still. The Hebrew word is ...Amad. If you were sitting down and was asked to Amad, then you would stand up. But if you were standing up and was asked to Amad, then you would cease your action of standing or restraining and would stand still. If this rendering of the Hebrew phrase is accurate, then this would line up with the battle in the Heavens where Satan and his angels and Michael and his angels fight.

Note the timing is during the second half of the seventieth week or the "Great Trib. or "The Time of Jacob's Trouble". The result of this battle finds Satan the loser and he is cast out of the Heavenlies to the earth. see: (Rev 12) and in (Rev.13), we find John beholding the beast (antichrist) rise up from the sea. This last phrase could mean that he comes from the midst of mankind. The "sea" in many scriptures depicts men.

see: (Isa 57:20) / (Rev 17:15).

note: (Rev 13:2) states that it is at this time, that Satan gives antichrist his power, his seat, and great authority. It is even probable that antichrist is literally possessd by Satan himself. Therefore, "if" Michael is the restraining force, we see at this point in time, that the resraint is removed.

Whoever the restrainer is, is still a dark glass, but the important thing is that there is one. He is much like the flag man in a auto race. He is able to hold back those revving, powerful machines until he drops the flag. But notice, he doesn't leave the race, but simply steps aside or walks off of the track. So also antichrist, has to wait until God gives permission for the restraint to be removed. These are the various views of the restrainer, but remember, we cannot be dogmatic. Paul knew, God knows;.... but we're just not sure.

The rendering of he be taken out of the way is by far, a poor transliteration. For there is no "taken" or "way" in the Grk. Surprised? I was too.

Actual Grk. =

(vs 7) "for the mystery of lawlessness already is working; only (there is) he who restrains at present until out of (the) midst he be (gone)",

Now we have another puzzle. There are two times that the word "he" is stated. the first "he" is definitely the "restrainer". But if we read the text without the parenthesis, (for they are not inspired), the second "he" is the one who "rises" out of the midst. This fits well with (Rev 13:1). Read that verse again with this in mind. Let's also note at this time, that the Holy Spirit or the church, are not mentioned or meant in this verse at all. And also, we need to look at the languages that the scriptures were written in to get the fuller and truer flavor of what is being communicated by the Holy Spirit who inspired it to begin with. Take for example the word "mansions" in (Jn 14:2). Many take this word as literally meaning a material house of some kind. But this is simply the word "abode", the same as in (Jn 14:23).

(vs 8) "and then"

(Grk. = tote) this means at the same time, shall that wicked (one) be revealed or unveiled so that his true self is exposed. Much like him taking off his mask. We know that he comes on the scene at the beginning of the 70th week as a peacemaker, but in the "midst of the week", see: (Dan 9:27), his play acting is over.This could also be the revealing of the mystery of (vs 7). He will continue for 42 months or 3 1/2 years. (the great trib.) and then Jesus will consume him with the "Spirit of His mouth", (the double edged sword of His word) and shall destroy him (Antichrist) with the "epiphanea" (brightness) of His (Christ's) "parousia". see: ( Dan 8:25)

(vs 9) "even him whose (parousia) coming".

Paul backtracks here to the "coming" (parousia) of the antichrist which is naturally before the "coming" of Jesus Christ.

Question?

At this point if we can see that this word "parousia" is used for the "Glorious Return" of our Lord in this text, at the very end of the great trib., then how do others say that the very same word in (1Th 4:15) is meant for the Lord's coming for the church seven years before this coming?

Paul continues: antichrist's "coming" is after or empowered by the working of Satan with all power (dunamas, Grk. for like a dynamo) and signs and "lying" wonders or miracles. These miracles may be shams or sleight of hand to deceive the senses, but more likely, they are real miracles that lead them that are perishing to a false belief that they come from "Divine power". see : (Ex 7:11,12). These lying wonders will be performed by another star in our cast that is not mentioned in this text, but he is the 2nd beast of (Rev 13).

(vs 10) "them that are perishing", see: (Jn 3:19,20,36).

(vs 11) because of them not receiving the love of the truth, God "sends", not just allows, a "strong delusion" or a "working of error", that they should believe the lie. see: (Ro 1:28 32).

note: that man can become god is the lie that Satan told our first parents.

(vs 12) rejection of the truth results in judgment and ends with damnation.

see: the Great White Throne of (Rev 20:11 15).

Cont'd

[Guest choobaca]

Cont'd Part 5 of 2 Thess 2:1-12

Summary and conclusion:

Who is Paul addressing?

Answer: "The Church"

What is the timing?

Answer: "The 70th week of Daniel"

Who is coming?

Answer: 1) antichrist is unveiled or revealed in true character.

2) Jesus Christ, at the end of the week.

Who is being gathered?

Answer: the "Church"

She will be gathered from all over the globe, (note: different time zones will keep us from knowing the day or the hour) to meet the Lord in the air prior to His touchdown but after His "descending" from the right hand of God. see: (1Th 4:13 18). Notice who plays "yo yo". Jesus went up from earth to Heaven with no stop offs and is coming back from Heaven to earth with no stops or returning to Heaven again. If you counter this, show the chapter and verse. see: (Acts 1:11) & (Zec 14:3 5). It's the Church who goes into the air to meet the Lord only to return "with" Him to the land of Israel. So the purpose of the gathering (raptue) is to receive our new bodies like unto "His" and to go with Him to the battle with Antichrist and all his armies. Remember that (1Th 4:13 18) is a resurrection passage, for the "dead in Christ" shall rise first. This is the same resurrection called "the first" in (Rev 20).

Question?

Who is the restrainer?

Answer: We honestly don't know yet.

Who slays Antichrist?

Answer: The Lord at His "parousia".

Who is damned?

Answer: Antichrist; the false prophet of (Rev 13); and all those who love "not" the truth.

Final question?

If the Church will not be present during the 70th week, then why does Paul teach them about Antichrist whom they will not be here to see? For they would know all this when they arrived in glory in a pretrib. rapture. But if the Church will be present, then the text is for the Church and is a forewarning of the scheduled events on God's timeclock. Jesus' words: "When ye see "these things" come to pass, then look up for your redemption draweth nigh (the post trib. rapture). "So watch" and be ye ready also! Amen!

Hope you enjoyed this study,

YBIC,

choobaca

[Guest shadow2b]

-(vs. 10) "Many", as well as wise servants, can also be interpreted as many (things) shall be purified (made clear),

-could yuse kind-a-splain on that jes a LILL mo please???{things??made clear??}

-otherwise,a very excellent expository...i kinna thank?? dratt wish i'd said that---ahh well-

[Guest choobaca]

-(vs. 10) "Many", as well as wise servants, can also be interpreted as many (things) shall be purified (made clear),

-could yuse kind-a-splain on that jes a LILL mo please???{things??made clear??}

-otherwise,a very excellent expository...i kinna thank?? dratt wish i'd said that---ahh well-

Hello Shad,

Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

KJV

Daniel's book was "sealed" until the writing of the Revelation. The books are book ends or companions. Rev reveals what Dan seals.

"Knowledge shall increase" is not speaking of our modern day tecnilogical advances though they are here also. But the "many" can mean "things" of understanding the scriptures. They would be clearer and white (dark before the dawn) as we near the Coming of Christ.

We may call it "insight" into the already inspired scriptures. Until the Rev, Dan could not be understood by itself.

Hope this helps.

YBIC,

choobaca