Is circumcision still an issue even for messianic jews?

[Metropolitan]

I was pondering on this aspect for a while, and I thought perhaps this is the right forum which can come to my rescue....I understand that this is a very touchy subject, and one over which even Peter and Paul sparred sometimes!

Since we are all under the new covenant, why would the covenant of circumcision still valid for the converted jews?

Paul has touched on this aspect in Galatians, but that was for defending the gentiles not having to be circumcised...But Paul very tactily has avoided to this as to not to unnerve the new 'jewish ' by not hinting at the new converts outside Jerusalem

I dont know much of the present Jewish traditions, may be somebody who knows can throw some light on it!

God Bless you all!

[Vickilynn]

Shalom,

As a Messianic Jew, my view is that G-d's Word is G-d's Word. His wisdom supersedes the ages and our understanding. IOW, His wisdom is relevant and applicable to all of us.

We circumsized our boys, all 3. We never even considered not doing it!

It is something that G-d set down in His Word, it is not "tradition."

[Metropolitan]

Shalom,

As a Messianic Jew, my view is that G-d's Word is G-d's Word. His wisdom supersedes the ages and our understanding. IOW, His wisdom is relevant and applicable to all of us.

We circumsized our boys, all 3. We never even considered not doing it!

It is something that G-d set down in His Word, it is not "tradition."

Grace to you, Vickilynn

Thanks for your reply!

In the Book of Galatians, Paul answers the question: "Is it necessary to be circumcised in order to be saved?"

Why did Paul feel compelled to answer this question? Simply because this question was of primary importance to believers of the early church, both Jewish and Gentile

Gal. 6:12-13: "As many as desire to make a good showing in the flesh, these try to compel you to be circumcised, only that they may not suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may glory in your flesh."

Apparently, these Jewish believers did not keep the whole law, but still believed that circumcision was necessary. Such was the importance of circumcision in the mind of some Jewish believers.

A similar problem had occurred in Antioch, and we read of this in Acts 15. The Jerusalem conference was called to settle this question of circumcision. A letter was written to the Gentile believers, to be delivered by Paul and Barnabas, accompanied by Judas and Silas.

Acts 15:24: "... we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, 'You must be circumcised and keep the law' -- to whom we gave no such commandment ..."

We see, then, that it was not the apostles at Jerusalem who had sent these men to tell the Gentiles at Antioch that they must be circumcised. Rather, these men from Judea had taken it upon themselves to do this. The same was the case in the churches of Galatia. Certain ones had taken it upon themselves to spread this wrong teaching regarding circumcision.

Finally, I would like to quote Gal 5:6

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love."

According to me, getting an infant circumcised is like 'infant baptism'...those who are against this form of baptism, it will be interesting to know their opinions as well..Also getting an infant circumcised, is a show of 'faith' for the parents, but nothing in at all for the child.

[Vickilynn]

Shalom,

As a Messianic Jew, my view is that G-d's Word is G-d's Word. His wisdom supersedes the ages and our understanding. IOW, His wisdom is relevant and applicable to all of us.

We circumsized our boys, all 3. We never even considered not doing it!

It is something that G-d set down in His Word, it is not "tradition."

Grace to you, Vickilynn

Thanks for your reply!

In the Book of Galatians, Paul answers the question: "Is it necessary to be circumcised in order to be saved?"

Shalom Metro,

This is where the problem is.

I never said that circumcision is "necessary for salvation." Please read what I wrote and hopefully that will clear things up.

It seems you have your mind made up against circumcision and that is your choice, however, you asked the question of Messianic Jews, yet it doesn't appear you are open to our Scriptural views.

[Vickilynn]

I think I disagree with you Metropolitan, when you say there is no benefit to the infant.

Isn't it more healthy for a male to be circumsized, b/c of infection and whatnot? And isn't the 8th day of life the most ideal time b/c the blood-clotting platelets are fully developed at that time? And aren't all the laws God set before us ultimately for our benefit? Paul said he had been set free from the law, but he also said he served the law of God. Why? Could it be that he simply trusted God, and he knew the "rules" were there for a reason?

I believe we would all be more healthy physically, spiritually, and emotionally, if we would all follow the "law" God set before His chosen people. He's the manufacturer; He knows best how the model He made works. When we buy an appliance, it works best for us when we follow the "law" the manufacturer has given us. The same is true with our bodies. I wish I would follow the law in more areas than I do. But b/c I don't, doesn't mean God loves me less, nor that He is angry with me for not doing so.

Is circumcision essential? No. Is it important? It is if you want to get the most out of this life on earth God has given us.

Shalom Isaiah,

WOW, what an awesome post!!

You said it exactly and so well. Thank you.

[exrockstar]

I was pondering on this aspect for a while, and I thought perhaps this is the right forum which can come to my rescue....I understand that this is a very touchy subject, and one over which even Peter and Paul sparred sometimes!

Since we are all under the new covenant, why would the covenant of circumcision still valid for the converted jews?

Paul has touched on this aspect in Galatians, but that was for defending the gentiles not having to be circumcised...But Paul very tactily has avoided to this as to not to unnerve the new 'jewish ' by not hinting at the new converts outside Jerusalem

I dont know much of the present Jewish traditions, may be somebody who knows can throw some light on it!

God Bless you all!

Circumcision was symbolic. it came to light and fulfilled.

If you want to circumcize for MEDICAL reasons then go ahead just dont mix OT beliefs into it.

Not anymore anyways.

God bless ... 3xR0c|<stAr

[Guest yod]

That ignores the purpose of circumcision. It is a sign of the Covenant between God and the jewish people. Any messianic jews would have been circumcised on the 8th day already. This commandment was never rescinded....but it was never mandatory for gentiles either.

Necessary for salvation? No...but it is an important symbol of obedience and faith to a jewish person just like baptism is to a gentile.

I am not jewish but my 3rd son was born right after I was saved and we had him circumcised on the 8th day according to the commandment. My other 3 sons who were circumcised at birth. Apparently the medical benefits were known to God at Creation but doctors didn't find out until recently.

Aren't most male babies circumcised (at birth) in America these days?

[Guest]

Is circumcision essential? No. Is it important? It is if you want to get the most out of this life on earth God has given us.

Shalom Isaiah,

WOW, what an awesome post!!

You said it exactly and so well. Thank you.

Welcome to Worthy Brother John

I believe you will find most believers at Worthy do not confuse "works" with Grace.

Especially our precious and beloved Messianic Jewish Brothers and Sisters.

Their forefathers payed a terrible price both as individuals and as a Nation to give us The Holy Scriptures

I adore this Holy Book and my heart overflows with gratitude to My Lord and to His Israel for it.

Oh LORD, I pray for The Peace of Jerusalem!

Come Quickly Lord Jesus, Come Quickly!

Because we love them so, usually you will not find us attempting to "bait and switch" our dear Worthy family.

You see John, the Holy Blood shed for the remission of sins also binds This Body of Christ together in Love Eternal.

You, Brother John, are most assuredly included in this family if you are His!

Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

1 Corinthians 13:4-7

This may or may not apply to your "question" John but here it is.

All males in my birth family are circumcised.

This goes all the way back to just after our "cattle thieving" days in Bonny Old Scotland.

We are Gentles so far as any of us know!

The circumcision is done as a prayer of love to our Lord.

He is a Jew on His mother's side, don't you know, and He was circumcised!

Circumcision also is done out of love and respect for our beloved Abraham, The Father of Our Faith.

And it was done as a physical sign of our stand with The Jewish peoples against the Devil's hatred of The Messiah's Beloved Israel.

I do not know if our women ever knew the risk this sign put our males into but the adult men did and they did it as an act of faith in the power of Jesus to prevail over all evil.

As long I have been able to trace it back, We have pledged our family linage to the physical and/or spiritual defense of The Jew.

Usually we prayed but, in WW II, we did carry M-1's into a minor war against the haters of Israel.

Jesus will totally finish this war in One Terrible Day of The LORD!

Glory! Glory! Glory!

The Jewish people are even now being restored to God's favor and have never ceased to be The Apple of His Eye.

These peoples are deeply cherished by those of us who are grafted into The Vine!

We morn and we weep and we pray for The Glories Day The Jew is completely restored!

In this family, circumcision was never intended to add to nor to take away from The Work of Redemption done upon The Cross at Calvary.

In this family, circumcision was never intended to add to nor to take away from The Work of Redemption done by The Holy One who hung there and Who suffered nine hours to full-pay for our sins.

In this family, circumcision was never intended to add to nor to take away from The Work of Redemption done by The Holy Father Who Laid those lashes upon His Beloved Son.

Because He first loved us.....

Oh How We Love Jesus.

Yeshua HaMashiach

(Jesus the Messiah)

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Vickilynn]

Is circumcision essential? No. Is it important? It is if you want to get the most out of this life on earth God has given us.

Shalom Isaiah,

WOW, what an awesome post!!

You said it exactly and so well. Thank you.

Welcome to Worthy Brother John

I believe you will find most believers at Worthy do not confuse "works" with Grace.

Especially our precious and beloved Messianic Jewish Brothers and Sisters.

Their forefathers payed a terrible price both as individuals and as a Nation to give us The Holy Scriptures

I adore this Holy Book and my heart overflows with gratitude to My Lord and to His Israel for it.

Oh LORD, I pray for The Peace of Jerusalem!

Come Quickly Lord Jesus, Come Quickly!

Because we love them so, usually you will not find us attempting to "bait and switch" our dear Worthy family.

You see John, the Holy Blood shed for the remission of sins also binds This Body of Christ together in Love Eternal.

You, Brother John, are most assuredly included in this family if you are His!

Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

1 Corinthians 13:4-7

This may or may not apply to your "question" John but here it is.

All males in my birth family are circumcised.

This goes all the way back to just after our "cattle thieving" days in Bonny Old Scotland.

We are Gentles so far as any of us know!

The circumcision is done as a prayer of love to our Lord.

He is a Jew on His mother's side, don't you know, and He was circumcised!

Circumcision also is done out of love and respect for our beloved Abraham, The Father of Our Faith.

And it was done as a physical sign of our stand with The Jewish peoples against the Devil's hatred of The Messiah's Beloved Israel.

I do not know if our women ever knew the risk this sign put our males into but the adult men did and they did it as an act of faith in the power of Jesus to prevail over all evil.

As long I have been able to trace it back, We have pledged our family linage to the physical and/or spiritual defense of The Jew.

Usually we prayed but, in WW II, we did carry M-1's into a minor war against the haters of Israel.

Jesus will totally finish this war in One Terrible Day of The LORD!

Glory! Glory! Glory!

The Jewish people are even now being restored to God's favor and have never ceased to be The Apple of His Eye.

These peoples are deeply cherished by those of us who are grafted into The Vine!

We morn and we weep and we pray for The Glories Day The Jew is completely restored!

In this family, circumcision was never intended to add to nor to take away from The Work of Redemption done upon The Cross at Calvary.

In this family, circumcision was never intended to add to nor to take away from The Work of Redemption done by The Holy One who hung there and Who suffered nine hours to full-pay for our sins.

In this family, circumcision was never intended to add to nor to take away from The Work of Redemption done by The Holy Father Who Laid those lashes upon His Beloved Son.

Because He first loved us.....

Oh How We Love Jesus.

Yeshua HaMashiach

(Jesus the Messiah)

Love, Your Brother Joe

Shalom Joe,

Oh my, I am sitting here literally crying at your post. It is one of the most beautiful, edifying, Spirit-filled posts I have ever read here.

Your words are a balm to wounded hearts. Your words are used by Jesus to show His love to all His children.

Thank you for allowing the Holy Spirit to use you.

Your sister in Messiah,

Vickilynn

[EricH]

Actually, putting the religious implications aside, there are many health reasons that make circumcision a good idea