for those that believe you can lose your salvation

[exrockstar]

here is an analogy that IS in scripture.

we're going to talk about building a house.

the moment you accepted the gospel of Jesus Christ, a builder went into

a field "somewhere" and laid down a house foundation with your name on it.

everytime you do good "works" then walls are built, floors are built. the more you do, the bigger this house gets.

Then one day you pass away.

Christ is going to stand with you in front of this house that was built "somewhere" and burn it.

when this house catches fire whatever is left standing will determine how you will be rewarded.

What remains will show what were "good works" he was looking for.

Youre foundation was accepting Jesus Christ and everything you do BUILDS on that foundation.

If you laid your foundation and walk away, your foundation is going to be sitting there in a field all by itself. there

will be nothing to burn which means that you may not get rewards.

However, your foundation remains.

open your bible to 1 Cor. 3:11-15

v.11 is your foundation

[Fiosh]

In reading thru this thread, it seems that those who hold the OSAS theology claim that we have NOTHING whatsoever to do with our own salvation. Am I understanding that correctly?

This is NOT to say that we can earn salvation. We all agree that salvation is only possible thru Jesus' death on the Cross.

i know you just posted a lot of scripture but take this one and see how it fits in to all those beautiful passages you just presented.

eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

It fits perfectly, ex. I stated at the outset that we are saved by grace---by Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. Read verse 10. We also have to WALK IN THEM (good works).

Peace,

Fiosh

[Fiosh]

here is an analogy that IS in scripture.

we're going to talk about building a house.

the moment you accepted the gospel of Jesus Christ, a builder went into

a field "somewhere" and laid down a house foundation with your name on it.

everytime you do good "works" then walls are built, floors are built. the more you do, the bigger this house gets.

Then one day you pass away.

Christ is going to stand with you in front of this house that was built "somewhere" and burn it.

when this house catches fire whatever is left standing will determine how you will be rewarded.

What remains will show what were "good works" he was looking for.

Youre foundation was accepting Jesus Christ and everything you do BUILDS on that foundation.

If you laid your foundation and walk away, your foundation is going to be sitting there in a field all by itself. there

will be nothing to burn which means that you may not get rewards.

However, your foundation remains.

open your bible to 1 Cor. 3:11-15

v.11 is your foundation

You are misinterpreting this passage.

Start with verse 1 and you will see that Paul is discussing the role of the ministers of the Gospel.

[Guest LadyC]

ex, my scripture is quite sound. and hardening their hearts against God is a quote straight from scripture. just because YOU disagree doesn't make you so high and mighty that you can accurately judge what i'm saying to be incorrect, because it is not.

believing in the fact that God exists does NOT equate to KNOWING GOD. there is a vast difference. only a child of God can say that they KNOW Him.... BC or AD.

[Guest LadyC]

So while youre trying to reach the pinnacle of a righteous person and trying to be the best you can be.

It will all go up in smoke if you didn't accept Christ as your savior.

While your trying to push the lifestyle of a righteous person you have someone, who is non-Christian, like Ghandi beating you by a mile.

Ghandi is closer to being "Christ-like" than you'll ever be.

So base your salvation on how you live.

i find this highly judgemental and offensive. i DO know Christ as my saviour, i AM basing my salvation on having accepted Christ, and i am NOT trying to push a righteous lifestyle, and Ghandi is NOT beating me by a mile or more Christ-like than i'll ever be.

but considering you seem to be pointing out specks while you have a tremendous log in your eye, you might want to think about whether Ghandi is more Christ-like than YOU will ever be.

[exrockstar]

i find this highly judgemental and offensive. i DO know Christ as my saviour, i AM basing my salvation on having accepted Christ,

thanks for the conversation.

[exrockstar]

here is an analogy that IS in scripture.

we're going to talk about building a house.

the moment you accepted the gospel of Jesus Christ, a builder went into

a field "somewhere" and laid down a house foundation with your name on it.

everytime you do good "works" then walls are built, floors are built. the more you do, the bigger this house gets.

Then one day you pass away.

Christ is going to stand with you in front of this house that was built "somewhere" and burn it.

when this house catches fire whatever is left standing will determine how you will be rewarded.

What remains will show what were "good works" he was looking for.

Youre foundation was accepting Jesus Christ and everything you do BUILDS on that foundation.

If you laid your foundation and walk away, your foundation is going to be sitting there in a field all by itself. there

will be nothing to burn which means that you may not get rewards.

However, your foundation remains.

open your bible to 1 Cor. 3:11-15

v.11 is your foundation

You are misinterpreting this passage.

Start with verse 1 and you will see that Paul is discussing the role of the ministers of the Gospel.

i have read from verse 1 but verse 10 sets up verse 11. hence my point.

1 Corinthians 3:10 (King James Version)

King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain

10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

[Fiosh]

here is an analogy that IS in scripture.

we're going to talk about building a house.

the moment you accepted the gospel of Jesus Christ, a builder went into

a field "somewhere" and laid down a house foundation with your name on it.

everytime you do good "works" then walls are built, floors are built. the more you do, the bigger this house gets.

Then one day you pass away.

Christ is going to stand with you in front of this house that was built "somewhere" and burn it.

when this house catches fire whatever is left standing will determine how you will be rewarded.

What remains will show what were "good works" he was looking for.

Youre foundation was accepting Jesus Christ and everything you do BUILDS on that foundation.

If you laid your foundation and walk away, your foundation is going to be sitting there in a field all by itself. there

will be nothing to burn which means that you may not get rewards.

However, your foundation remains.

open your bible to 1 Cor. 3:11-15

v.11 is your foundation

You are misinterpreting this passage.

Start with verse 1 and you will see that Paul is discussing the role of the ministers of the Gospel.

i have read from verse 1 but verse 10 sets up verse 11. hence my point.

1 Corinthians 3:10 (King James Version)

King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain

10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

It is saying that each minister of the Gospel will be judged on what he proclaims to be the truth. How does that make your point?

[Fiosh]

In reading thru this thread, it seems that those who hold the OSAS theology claim that we have NOTHING whatsoever to do with our own salvation. Am I understanding that correctly?

This is NOT to say that we can earn salvation. We all agree that salvation is only possible thru Jesus' death on the Cross.

But are you saying that once we accept Christ, no matter what we do or don't do after that, we are saved???

To believe that, you'd have to totally disregard everything the Bible says about how a believer is expected to act. The knee-jerk argument would be to say, " how we act is just a reflection of our love". Well, to a point, maybe. But we're human, and by nature---selfish. Jesus is very clear and extremely serious about what He expects from His followers.

What did He say to the rich young man?

Matthew 19

16 Now someone approached him and said, "Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?"

17

He answered him, "Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

18 He asked him, "Which ones?" And Jesus replied, " 'You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness;

19

honor your father and your mother'; and 'you shall love your neighbor as yourself.'"

20

The young man said to him, "All of these I have observed. What do I still lack?"

21

Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to (the) poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

22

When the young man heard this statement, he went away sad, for he had many possessions.

23

Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Amen, I say to you, it will be hard for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.

24

Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

****************************************************************8

And again Jesus tells us what we must DO to gain salvation:

Matthew 25

31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne,

...

34

Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

35

For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,

36

naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.'

37

Then the righteous will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?

38

When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?

39

When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?'

40

And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41 Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

42

For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,

43

a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.'

44

Then they will answer and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?'

45

He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.'

46

And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

So there is no way to make an argument that we don't have anything to DO with our own salvation.

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*********

And, Paul makes it clear that we must continue to walk the walk to the end:

2 Timothy

10 Therefore, I bear with everything for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, together with eternal glory.

11

This saying is trustworthy: If we have died with him we shall also live with him;

12

if we persevere we shall also reign with him. But if we deny him he will deny us.

13

If we are unfaithful he remains faithful, for he cannot deny himself.

Yes, God is faithful. And He will always be ready to forgive. But if we turn from Him, He will not force us to remain in Him.

********************************************************************************

****************

I agree with LadyC; Paul used the relationship between God and the Hebrews to compare how our relationship (and faithfulness) to Christ should be:

1 Cor

1 I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea,

2

and all of them were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.

3

All ate the same spiritual food,

4

and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they drank from a spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was the Christ.

5

Yet God was not pleased with most of them, for they were struck down in the desert.

6

These things happened as examples for us, so that we might not desire evil things, as they did.

7

And do not become idolaters, as some of them did, as it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to revel."

8

Let us not indulge in immorality as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell within a single day.

9

Let us not test Christ as some of them did, and suffered death by serpents.

10

Do not grumble as some of them did, and suffered death by the destroyer.

11

These things happened to them as an example, and they have been written down as a warning to us, upon whom the end of the ages has come.

12 Therefore, whoever thinks he is standing secure should take care not to fall

********************************************************************************

*****

And to make it abundantly clear that NO ONE should take their salvation for granted, Paul even uses himself as an example. Despite all that he has sacrificed for the cause of the Gospel, he does not take his own salvation for granted:

I Cor 9

24 Do you not know that the runners in the stadium all run in the race, but only one wins the prize? Run so as to win.

25

Every athlete exercises discipline in every way. They do it to win a perishable crown, but we an imperishable one.

26

Thus I do not run aimlessly; I do not fight as if I were shadowboxing.

27

No, I drive my body and train it, for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.

Peace,

Fiosh

exrockstar,

Do you have no response to any of this?

F

[Fiosh]

here is an analogy that IS in scripture.

we're going to talk about building a house.

the moment you accepted the gospel of Jesus Christ, a builder went into

a field "somewhere" and laid down a house foundation with your name on it.

everytime you do good "works" then walls are built, floors are built. the more you do, the bigger this house gets.

Then one day you pass away.

Christ is going to stand with you in front of this house that was built "somewhere" and burn it.

when this house catches fire whatever is left standing will determine how you will be rewarded.

What remains will show what were "good works" he was looking for.

Youre foundation was accepting Jesus Christ and everything you do BUILDS on that foundation.

If you laid your foundation and walk away, your foundation is going to be sitting there in a field all by itself. there

will be nothing to burn which means that you may not get rewards.

However, your foundation remains.

open your bible to 1 Cor. 3:11-15

v.11 is your foundation

You are misinterpreting this passage.

Start with verse 1 and you will see that Paul is discussing the role of the ministers of the Gospel.

i have read from verse 1 but verse 10 sets up verse 11. hence my point.

1 Corinthians 3:10 (King James Version)

King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain

10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

It is saying that each minister of the Gospel will be judged on what he proclaims to be the truth. How does that make your point?

so are only "ministers" of the Gospel temple of the Holy spirit. In anycase are we not all ministers of the Gospel?

Hi ruck,

ex is trying to use this passage to somehow support OSAS. He is misinterpreting it. If you read from the beginning of the chapter, it is clear that Paul is refering to those who are teaching the Gospel to the Corinthians. ex is trying to make it say something that just isn't there.

What's at issue is not who is a temple of the Holy Spirit.

If we teach the Gospel, we are responsible to teach it truthfully and responsibly---or we will be judged accordingly.

Peace,

Fiosh