Drunk takes a free bike ride on car roof

[childofthegreat_i_am]

It kinda horrifies me that he got 2 charges dealing with his ID and public drunkenness, but nothing referring to how incredibly dangerous the stunt of his was!

[buckthesystem]

Bib. in the Netherlands the police are notorious for demanding ID off people any place/any time.

This drunk guy was NOT driving a car, or even riding a bike, he sure wasn't cashing a cheque or buying drugs.

Anyway, if you are buying prescription drugs, surely the fact that you have a prescription, IDs you enough, and if you are buying non-prescription drugs - what does it matter?

Some bank tellers and chemist shop employees have tried to demand ID here, but I've resisted it every time or just gone to another bank or shop. I don't have any ID, and I am sure not going to get some just to satisfy the demands of somebody on a power trip.

I am not trying to get at you, or saying that your views are wrong, this is just my opinion. When I read of someone having their "ID card demanded" I get an image of an SS officer demanding "papers". Maybe I'm showing my age, being brought up on old WWII films.

I guess there is a bit of culture shock here. I never susspect the police of anything underhanded, even though there are police who are somewhat crooked.

We do have to present ID for purchasing certain non-prescription drugs, i.e. allergy medecines, because people are getting [stealing] them in mass quantities to make illegal drugs. These types of drugs are now behind the register counter and can only be purchased with your drivers license.

Same thing with writing a check or using a bank card. It is required.

I understand your reasons behind your feelings. It is wrong to demand someone's id when they are not breaking the law, but this bum was clearly breaking the law and therefore his rights went right out the window.

In America, no matter what the officer stops you for, you automatically present your license [iD], registration and insurance card. Failure to do so will get you in serious trouble. It's one thing to question the drug store or bank clerk for asking for ID but I wouldn't dream of questioning a police officer about it. With ID fraud what it is, I prefer they ask, that way I am ensured that someone else is not using my checks or credit card. My husband always thanks the clerks for asking him for ID, it means they have been trained to care about and are aware of ID fraud.

It doesn't say they demanded his ID, it says he wasn't carrying his own and he presented them with false ID. Those are offences.

You don't carry any ID. How do you drive?

I have been asked for my ID by police just walking down the street lte at night. You also have to prodice ID for perscription narcotic drugs...just to prove you are who the perscritpion says you are.

America doesn't have a "national id card" yet, that is it won't until "real id" becomes law. And the way it looks at the moment, there is a lot of resistance to that. So is "I have been asked for my ID by police just walking down the street lte at night" strictly legal? Do the police have the authority to do this? I'd question it if I were you, I mean what if you don't have any ID?

As for the prescription, what if you are getting the prescription for someone else? Say your elderly neighbour who cannot get out themself?

[buckthesystem]

I guess I just never thought about it before but I'm not sure I'd feel safe (not that we have much of that anymore) if people weren't asked for their id.

Never tried to hitch a ride on top of another car before though. Maybe the guy has seen too many action movies.

Time to think about it! Exactly HOW does the fact that people have ID demanded - you as well, make you feel "safe"?

I guess it is an association thing. I am old, so I associate it with people in occupied countries out after curfew being stopped in the street, "papers" demanded, and then being herded up to be taken to a concentration camp because they broke the curfew. Now that sure doesn't conjure up the word "safe" to me at all.

It doesn't make any difference to me because it is the police demanding ID. The way I see it, it just makes for a police state.

[Guest Biblicist]

America doesn't have a "national id card" yet, that is it won't until "real id" becomes law. And the way it looks at the moment, there is a lot of resistance to that. So is "I have been asked for my ID by police just walking down the street lte at night" strictly legal? Do the police have the authority to do this? I'd question it if I were you, I mean what if you don't have any ID?

As for the prescription, what if you are getting the prescription for someone else? Say your elderly neighbour who cannot get out themself?

No matter who is purchasing the non-prescription drugs, or prescription drugs for that matter, ID is always required. There are ingredients in the drugs that people are using to make Crystal Meth. It's a good way to keep track of who buys it and how much. If it looks suspicious, they can check it out, since they would have the name and address of the person who bought it.

Why is it so bad for the Police to ask for your ID. Were you around during WWII? Please understand that there are no concentration camps anymore and no one goes to jail for not having ID.

The Police didn't demand his ID, I am sure they simply wanted it to write out the report and when he produced false ID, verbally or other wise, it only made things worse for him. It's NOT a good idea to lie to the police.

I certainly hope that you are not feeling sorry for this law breaker. After all, he put himself, as well as the owners/passangers of the vehicle he "hitched" a ride on, in jeapordy.

[buckthesystem]

America doesn't have a "national id card" yet, that is it won't until "real id" becomes law. And the way it looks at the moment, there is a lot of resistance to that. So is "I have been asked for my ID by police just walking down the street lte at night" strictly legal? Do the police have the authority to do this? I'd question it if I were you, I mean what if you don't have any ID?

As for the prescription, what if you are getting the prescription for someone else? Say your elderly neighbour who cannot get out themself?

No matter who is purchasing the non-prescription drugs, or prescription drugs for that matter, ID is always required. There are ingredients in the drugs that people are using to make Crystal Meth. It's a good way to keep track of who buys it and how much. If it looks suspicious, they can check it out, since they would have the name and address of the person who bought it.

Why is it so bad for the Police to ask for your ID. Were you around during WWII? Please understand that there are no concentration camps anymore and no one goes to jail for not having ID.

The Police didn't demand his ID, I am sure they simply wanted it to write out the report and when he produced false ID, verbally or other wise, it only made things worse for him. It's NOT a good idea to lie to the police.

I certainly hope that you are not feeling sorry for this law breaker. After all, he put himself, as well as the owners/passangers of the vehicle he "hitched" a ride on, in jeapordy.

Bib. I'm surprised that you even ask the question "Why is it so bad for the Police to ask for your ID", why is it bad for ANYONE to ask for ID? The answer is because by doing so they are calling you a liar who is trying to "get the better of them" and they don't trust you. Also they are assuming that you are a criminal. I don't want to live in a society where everybody is automatically suspected as having criminal intent, and so have to prove that they don't - this is reversing the onus of proof which has been a cornerstone of democracy for centuries.

Obviously you have just accepted it as part of life. That is incredibly sad. A few years ago when the government directed supermarkets to "demand ID from 'anyone who looked under 25' when they were purchasing liquor" (and "demand" is most definitely the right word here) and I saw lines of teenagers all obsequiously hunting for their DLs or student cards or what ever, I got very concerned that the only purpose it would have was to "get young people 'acclimatised' (wording) to not being insulted when ID was demanded from them, expecting it and getting used to having it and carrying it. I would get really riled at the announcement that would come over the PA system at the supermarket "explaining it" and ending with "... so if you are asked for ID, take it as a compliment" - I would think "sure, you're accused of having criminal intent and you're supposed to take it as a compliment".

No, I was not around during WWII, but then WWII is not the only time in history when imposing and demanding id cards has been used to oppress a population. When I was a child and we first got TV in NZ just about all that was on for a while were old war films about WWII, that made me curious enough to find books about it in an attempt to answer the age-old question: "Why did these people let it all happen". I read about Adolf Hitler's oppression of the Jews, Gypsys, Poles and others and wondered "how did it get to be such a repressive society so quickly", then I found out that it happened incrementally over a long period of time. Laws were introduced and people (and Jews whom they were aimed at) thought "oh, well that isn't so bad, we can live with that", then all of a sudden a law were introduced sending them to concentration camps and they (literally) couldn't live with that one. Yep, sure enough, ID cards were one of those laws.

You say "..... there are no concentration camps any more". Well I'm sure that a lot of people in a lot of other places - we'll take for example Rwanda, won't agree with you, and I'm sure the people in Germany prior to 1940 said something along those lines too. The Belgians pulled out of Rwanda leaving a legacy of ID cards, ones that identified the population on tribal grounds. The 1994 Tutsi massacre by Hutus was because they were identified by their id cards as being Tutsis. Here's a good link on why ID cards are dangerous and can lead to something like this:

http://hrw.org/reports/2003/rwanda0403/rwanda0403-03.htm

I guess you're banking on the fact that you can trust the present government in your country now. So can you say for absolute certain that you will always be able to trust any government that is ever over you or your descendents? And you said "no one goes to jail for not having ID", well a lot of people have been killed for not having id and in France and the Netherlands (in fact more countries than you'd think) people have been "fined" thousands of dollars for "not carrying their id". In fact, the "Paris riots" in 2005 were started because two young teenagers were electrocuted because they ran into a power substation to hide as the police were chasing them and they were scared "because one of them didn't have his ID card".

And in the Netherlands in 2005 "at the end of last August close to 47,000 people had been fined (for not producing id cards when demanded to do so) of which 4,000 were children of 14 and 15. In Jan. around 100 people a day were stopped, checked by the police and fined when they were unable to immediately produce a valid id card". That is so much for "The Police didn't demand his ID, I am sure they simply wanted it to write out the report....." After all, it was the same Netherlands that the drunk bike rider in the article was in.

So that is my view on the dangers of ID cards. We cannot afford to be complacent and say "it can't happen here, or now!" - how many others have said or thought the same thing, and lost their lives because of it?

Certainly I agree that we must have some laws. But we must always remember that the law of man is basically flawed, and "function creep" exists, and we can never afford to forget that. The only way round it is eternal vigilance and never just blindly accepting and trusting anything.

[Guest Biblicist]

I guess the difference between us is that I do trust the government, but not because it is a government of men; but of God. The basic foundations, and principals of the American government were set in place by men of God, therefore it can be trusted because God's hand was in it. I trust the Saviour to use whatever man imposes upon me to create in me a stronger need for Him and faith in Him. If I get sent to jail because I do not carry the propper ID in a country where it is manditory then God will use it for my good, and His glory, even though it was meant for evil.

Think of Joseph, Daniel, Shadrach, Meshack, & Abednego. Outside forces, brothers and leaders, caused them some unusual suffering. Instead of balking at the system they accepted the situations and allowed God to work through it. And look at the end result. What glory they brought to God for accepting man's judgement for God's sovereign plan!

I believe that God is in complete control of the situations, all situations. He is completely sovereign and I do not fear for my future but place my trust in Him. What good would it do for me to worry, it will not add one day to my life. I know who holds the future, and I know He's watching me.

Genesis 50:20 You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done. . .

[buckthesystem]

Bib. I am sure that God never intended for us to deliberately let evil flourish!

Free will is behind all this, and free will can be used for the glory of God or the worship of satan, and to let something happen (by sitting back and saying "what will be, will be", and even embracing the same system that allowed these things) like what happened to the Jews in Europe in the early part of last century, or what happened to people in Rwanda in the 1990s, is - in my view anyway - supporting satan.

God is good and sorts out most things, but sometimes he uses the most unlikely people and things, to do it.

If enough people had spoken out about the incremental laws that were "passed" with regard to Jews in Europe during the Nazi reign - things like a population register, wearing of the yellow star, id cards with a "J" on them, dispossession of all property from Jews etc., things just might have been different.

I am not saying that the world-wide trend towards "issuing id cards" and numbering the population will result in another Jewish holocaust, but it has already resulted in a lot of people dying needlessly and a lot of people being bullied and having their money taken from them.