Catsmeow Posted March 8, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 439 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 7,315 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 356 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/21/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted March 8, 2004 BTW, I was sprinkled as a baby and dunked as an adult...and neither one really made any difference. What did matter is that one day, I cried out to the Lord to have mercy on me, a sinner....and He did. That's all that matters to me now. As far as baptism, if God asked me to dunk in a vat of Koolaid, I'd do it. I'd do just about anything He wants. All He's every asked of me was a sincere heart and willingness to repent. That's where we're at now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godrulz Posted March 8, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 885 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1960 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Salvation is based on relationship and heart issues. It is not based on an external ritual (as important as communion and baptism are). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catsmeow Posted March 8, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 439 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 7,315 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 356 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/21/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted March 8, 2004 Ah, the voice of reason! As always, Godrulz...I don't hear from you enough but when I do, it's always pearls of wisdom... Sure wish you'd post more often, bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 None so blind as he who refuses sight. So, all you have to do is open your eyes, and get a grip on reality instead of imposing legalistic Church of Christ traditions on the rest of us. If you want to believe in water immersion for salvation, fine. You do not need to try to indoctrinate the rest of us with this false teaching. We were doing just fine before you all came here and started spewing this garbage, and we will be fine after you're through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehut Posted March 8, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,216 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/16/1962 Share Posted March 8, 2004 I'm Baptist, so you can easily figure out what I believe. Calamity, Actually, No I can't. There a couple dozen Baptist denominations, not counting the unaffiliated local churches. Would you be a Calvinist Baptist? I promise this will be my last question to you on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted March 9, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 115 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 8,281 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/30/1955 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Jesus Christ Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Shiloh, my dear fellow: I know it must be very comforting to have your mind hermetically sealed against the pollutioning influence of the truth, but I am going to try one more time to actually speak with you in civil discourse ('hope springs eternal....'). Where in my posts did I ever make a claim for baptismal regeneration? I do not believe in eternal salvation by means of water. I simply assert that the Scriptures, the Fathers, the Spirit, and the experience of the Church around the world testify to the fact that it is NOT just a meaningless ritual. I believe it does more than get you wet! Now just what that more is, I am not quite prepared to say at this time. I am still prayerfully and studiously considering that question. Again, I must insist that Jesus didn't give us empty, time wasting, rituals. That just seems out of character for our Lord. By the way, your method of argumentation--full of vitriol, bile, and vituperation strongly indicates that you were not, are not, and have never been 'doing fine' as you assert. I speak from experience. I was a hot-head who had everything doctrinally nailed-down 'correctly'. I could have written the very posts you have done on this topic. To my shame, I would been just as mean as you are being here, that is why I am capable of patience with you, and why I keep 'dogging' you. Ever so slowly I came to see I was not really responding in 'righteous indignation' but out of fear. Anger, my good chap, is THREATENED VALUE. I was actually quite insecure in my faith, so that disagreements threatened it, and I would begin spouting all my 'proof texts' and hurling insults. In short, behaving like the north end of a south-bound horse. Unfortunately I had no one 'take me to task' on this account, so it was many years I wasted, imagining I was doing 'the Lord's work' in so boldly and forcefully fighting heresy. I would like to see your capacities turned from this revolting behavior to productivity in the Kingdom of God sooner than were mine. Remember, the Kingdom of God is Righteousness, Peace, and Joy in the Holy Ghost. A word, to the wise, is sufficient. Aw to heck with it. I think I'll just give you another 'net beating': Take THAT, you fiend! And THAT! And THAT! Where'd he go? Ah, there he is! Whack! Whack!! Chortling a blessing, Leonard, a sinner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 I do not believe in eternal salvation by means of water. I simply assert that the Scriptures, the Fathers, the Spirit, and the experience of the Church around the world testify to the fact that it is NOT just a meaningless ritual. I believe it does more than get you wet! Now just what that more is, I am not quite prepared to say at this time. I am still prayerfully and studiously considering that question. I have not claimed it was a meaningless ritual. Those who ascribe to the ridiculous notion that one must be immersed in water in order to be saved, give it more meaning than it deserves. Since folks like me do not agree with them, we are accused of saying it is meaningless. It has meaning only as a symbol of the batpism into Christ that occurs at salvation. For anyone to assert that it is necessasry for salvation in addtion to faith in Christ is legalism. You have claimed that you believe in infant baptism, something that is uscriptural. You have also appealed to the "authority" of the early church fathers who also lent their "authority" to the slaughter of innocents in the Holy Land. The crusades were in the words of Pope Urban II, an attempt to "rid the Holy Land of that wicked race." (the Jews) The early church fathers had no problem with that, or the pogroms, or the inquisition, so they have nothing to say to me about God. They have no authority no value to me in spiritual matters. By the way, your method of argumentation--full of vitriol, bile, and vituperation strongly indicates that you were not, are not, and have never been 'doing fine' as you assert. I speak from experience. I was a hot-head who had everything doctrinally nailed-down 'correctly'. I could have written the very posts you have done on this topic. To my shame, I would been just as mean as you are being here, that is why I am capable of patience with you, and why I keep 'dogging' you. You refered to my beliefs as "wimpspeak." You reject the notion that water immersion is an outward demonstration of an inward work (again, wimpspeak). You misrepresent us as saying "baptism is just another stupid thing we gotta do." Then you wonder why I go on the defensive with you. You run down my beliefs using a bunch high browed words, and claim that those who don't see it your way are part of the arrogance of the "enlightenment" who sees those who disagree with them as "lesser humans." Frankly, YOU drew first blood, not me. You drew a bunch of false assumptions about me, and you don't even know me. I am just tired of people getting on this board thinking they are going start preaching their stuff, and questioning our salvation by telling us that if we did'nt do it the way they did, that we are not saved. I am tired of people getting on here not taking the time to get know us and earning the right to criticize us because we use music in our services, or because we are Charismatic, or because we are Catholic. They jump on this board like they have the answers to everything, and if we do not submit to that, then we are unChristian or hateful. Lately, a bunch of newbies have gotten on here and just started a bunch of anti-this and anti-that, and have started imposing a bunch of legalism. They have not earned mine or anyone else's trust. They have not earned our respect or even tried to offer friendship, but boy, they are gonna set us straight!! I have no problem being "honest" with such people. I have no problem telling it like it is. If I am not worth getting to know first, before my salvation is questioned, then I reserve the right to defend my salvation in the same manner it is being attacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneB Posted March 9, 2004 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 232 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 7,261 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 79 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/19/1959 Share Posted March 9, 2004 It now appears (to me) that some folks that agree in principle are not taking the time to read one another's position on the matter and are jumping to conclusions. All fairness considered, no one is due a "net beating". When it gets to the point folks are doing so, it is time to pray for the Lord's hand in the discussion. Where is the "gentleness" in this brothers and sisters? It was a good thread but it is time to take a break. It is going over the same ground over and over and over... We'll lock it for now, go to our corners and pray and come back another day once the emotion wears off and we are back in the edifying mode. Blessings, Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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