Guest hummingbird Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 http://www.eschatologytoday.net/posttrib.php Now maybe we can all get really good and confused! LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest onwingsaseagles Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 The bible is very clear on this subject ,what confuses me is all the confusion.For most pretribbers they set their hearts on the fact the we are not appointed to wrath but they are confused about what wrath or who's wrath we are not appointed to.The wrath is the destruction of the earth by fire at the post trib 2nd coming (reff2nd thess 1:6-10 and 2nd pet 3:10-12)and we are rapture b4 the fire falls as Jesus is returning.For midtribbers they have even more problems because they believe that the anti christ reigns during the first half of the tribulation and then God pours his wrath out during the second half which in itself is a complete mis understanding of scripture the great tribulation the last 3.5 years does not start until the anti christs declares himself God and starts his reign th last 42 months(reff matt 24:15-21and rev 13:5)and it end with the return of Jesus at the battle of armageddon which not only ends the reign of the anti christ but the tribulation aswell and ushers in the millinneum (reff rev 19:11-21and rev 20:4-6).The attempts by some to force a pre or midtrib view seems not only flawed but deliberately deceptive seeing clearity of scripture on the subject.The day of the Lord is not a time but a day it is the day he returns to deliever the just and destroy the wicked(reff malachi4:1-3,luke 17:26-30,2nd thess 1:6-10,2nd thess 2:1-3 and 2nd pet 3:10-12)it is the day of the 2nd coming.For all of you who for some reason think that the fact that he returns as a thief proves pre the bible cleary says in 1st thess 5:2-4 that when he comes as a thief it is to destroy the wicked not to take the church and it also says the we as christians will not be overcome.And for those who believe that the fact that we do not know the day or hour proves pre,Jesus was not speaking of the rapture when he said that he was speaking of the 2nd coming itself when read in context starting at matt 24:22and reading through 36 this is abumdently clear and yet for some reason ignored.We all agree that the 2nd coming is after the tribulation so the fact that we do not know the day or hour of the 2nd coming does not keep it from being post trib and the fact that Jesus was reffering to the 2nd coming not the rapture when he made that statement disqualifies your point rendering it mute .Beside Jesus goes on to say that the 2nd coming would be as the days of noah the same day noah went on the arc is the same day God destroyed the earth so shall it be when the son of man returns(reff matt 24:37-40)Then shall two be in the field and one taken not 7yrs b4 the 2nd coming but at the 2nd coming which no man knows the day or hour of but we do know it is immediately after the tribulation because Jesus said it was (reff matt 24:29-31) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvpeach Posted November 5, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 35 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 5, 2007 Good post uote name='onwingsaseagles' date='Nov 5 2007, 01:32 AM' post='1022227'] The bible is very clear on this subject ,what confuses me is all the confusion.For most pretribbers they set their hearts on the fact the we are not appointed to wrath but they are confused about what wrath or who's wrath we are not appointed to.The wrath is the destruction of the earth by fire at the post trib 2nd coming (reff2nd thess 1:6-10 and 2nd pet 3:10-12)and we are rapture b4 the fire falls as Jesus is returning.For midtribbers they have even more problems because they believe that the anti christ reigns during the first half of the tribulation and then God pours his wrath out during the second half which in itself is a complete mis understanding of scripture the great tribulation the last 3.5 years does not start until the anti christs declares himself God and starts his reign th last 42 months(reff matt 24:15-21and rev 13:5)and it end with the return of Jesus at the battle of armageddon which not only ends the reign of the anti christ but the tribulation aswell and ushers in the millinneum (reff rev 19:11-21and rev 20:4-6).The attempts by some to force a pre or midtrib view seems not only flawed but deliberately deceptive seeing clearity of scripture on the subject.The day of the Lord is not a time but a day it is the day he returns to deliever the just and destroy the wicked(reff malachi4:1-3,luke 17:26-30,2nd thess 1:6-10,2nd thess 2:1-3 and 2nd pet 3:10-12)it is the day of the 2nd coming.For all of you who for some reason think that the fact that he returns as a thief proves pre the bible cleary says in 1st thess 5:2-4 that when he comes as a thief it is to destroy the wicked not to take the church and it also says the we as christians will not be overcome.And for those who believe that the fact that we do not know the day or hour proves pre,Jesus was not speaking of the rapture when he said that he was speaking of the 2nd coming itself when read in context starting at matt 24:22and reading through 36 this is abumdently clear and yet for some reason ignored.We all agree that the 2nd coming is after the tribulation so the fact that we do not know the day or hour of the 2nd coming does not keep it from being post trib and the fact that Jesus was reffering to the 2nd coming not the rapture when he made that statement disqualifies your point rendering it mute .Beside Jesus goes on to say that the 2nd coming would be as the days of noah the same day noah went on the arc is the same day God destroyed the earth so shall it be when the son of man returns(reff matt 24:37-40)Then shall two be in the field and one taken not 7yrs b4 the 2nd coming but at the 2nd coming which no man knows the day or hour of but we do know it is immediately after the tribulation because Jesus said it was (reff matt 24:29-31) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Ancient Words Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 (edited) Then shall two be in the field and one taken not 7yrs b4 the 2nd coming That is the gathering of Israel for judgment, not the Church. Jesus doesn't reveal the rapture of the Church, this is a key error so many people make. All the references in the gospels with the exception of John 14:1-4 (which is general, not specific) are concerning the Second Advent. Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, reveals the catching awy of the Church, the mystery not revealed in the OT or Gospels. Edited November 5, 2007 by The Ancient Words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whirlwind Posted November 5, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 113 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/22/1946 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Then shall two be in the field and one taken not 7yrs b4 the 2nd coming That is the gathering of Israel for judgment, not the Church. Jesus doesn't reveal the rapture of the Church, this is a key error so many people make. All the references in the gospels with the exception of John 14:1-4 (which is general, not specific) are concerning the Second Advent. Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, reveals the catching awy of the Church, the mystery not revealed in the OT or Gospels. There is no revealing of any such thing. All are judged at the same time.....when Christ comes at His 2nd Advent. Where did you read the church was judged separately? Those that are "taken" first in that scripture are those that are taken by anti-christ. They fall for his lies. Christ wants us to be left and working for Him in the fields (the world.) Do you truly believe that when the apostles asked Him about the end of days (Matthew, Mark and Luke) that He would say He foretold them all things and yet left that little rapture detail out? Not only left it out but told them what was expected of them up until the time He came to "judge and make war." Ancient....it didn't happen. Paul didn't reveal any "rapture" mystery. There is NO catching away of the church. We, if we live in that time, we will all be here and better listen to what He told us we would be doing. If not.....we will fall for the deception of Satan and then......wailing and gnashing of teeth when we realize what has happened (at His 2nd. Advent). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yzf-r1 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 All are judged at the same time Based on what? Clearly the OT prophets indicate a separate and distinct judgment for Israel (and a separate resurrection at the conclusion of Daniel's 70th Week). The "first resurrection" is a general event with two compartments, separated by a mere seven years Those that are "taken" first in that scripture are those that are taken by anti-christ. wrong...they are taken by God Luke 17 It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. On that day no one who is on the roof of his house, with his goods inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. Remember Lot's wife! Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left." "Where, Lord?" they asked. He replied, "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather." This is an obvious reference to the gathering of the Elect immediately before the final battle at Armageddon, and the destruction of all the ungodly by Christ at that time, His robes will be drenched in blood. Do you truly believe that when the apostles asked Him about the end of days (Matthew, Mark and Luke) that He would say He foretold them all things and yet left that little rapture detail out? yes, because it would only cause confusion for the Jewish apostles, remember, it had not yet been revealed that the Gospel would be taken to the Gentiles directly, that was not revealed until after Paul was converted, and Peter strongly resisted the concept for awhile, even then again, when Paul states "I show you a mystery", that is a precise technical term that defines what he is about to say as something never before revealed in the OT or Gospels, it's not just a term thrown haphazardly around by Paul for added drama Paul didn't reveal any "rapture" mystery in your opinion There is NO catching away of the church in your opinion We, if we live in that time, we will all be here and better listen to what He told us we would be doing. the timing of the rapture doesn't change that, it's not the "evil doctrine" you have been programmed to believe (apparently for many years), we live in the light of Christ retuuning to judge us for rewards, period...I believe it could happen tomorrow, and with your eschatology, it can't, the antichrist must revealed first and all the horrific signs of Revelation must occur...I don't see much motivation with your view, I see "let's kick back and coast, we have plenty of time, plenty of warning" If not.....we will fall for the deception of Satan and then another programmed argument you keep repeating I've debunked numerous times, the Elect CANNOT fall away, no way, no how..period what's frustrating debating you is I feel like I'm debating a tape player on endless auto-reverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Ancient Words Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 (edited) There is no revealing of any such thing. All are judged at the same time Basis? I think you need to study Ezekiel. Jesus did not discuss the Gentile church directly, Paul was appointed the "apostle to the Gentiles", Paul revealed the mystery, and the term mystery in the epistles always means something never nefore revealed. Edited November 6, 2007 by The Ancient Words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest onwingsaseagles Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Thank you wvpeach, also whirlwind i appreciate your input.Ancient if you are trying to get a pretrib view out of ezekiel it just goes to show how far a pretribber will go to support this false doctrine.God Bless You all.Let no man decieve you by any means,Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Ancient Words Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 (edited) if you are trying to get a... *Sigh* Another knee jerk, unreasoning, reactionary post; more unending smack about the evil "pretribbers". You completely missed my point, nothing new here. Indeed, let God be true and every man a liar, amen to that. Edited November 6, 2007 by The Ancient Words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest onwingsaseagles Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 if you are trying to get a... *Sigh* Another knee jerk, unreasoning, reactionary post; more unending smack about the evil "pretribbers". You completely missed my point, nothing new here. Indeed, let God be true and every man a liar, amen to that. you have no point except to deceive the unlearned ,nieve,and simple minded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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