Works / Faith in the Believer

[exrockstar]

You are blind because you dont want to see,you dont need my help,just open your eyes.

dancing around my request?

you really need to get over yourself.

[patricia1]

okay Let us Look at this scripture here.. Matthew was written to greek Jews most likely, Being the tax collector that he is he never missed any little detail that perhaps the other Gospels missed.

The gate here is of importance especially since it has been discovered.

There were two massive gates into the temple, the huldah gates, a double gate and a triple gate. They were both entrances of course.

Now a upper chamber to the temple..there was another doorway which was part of the tower ,the priests would come out this doorway to blow the rams horn and trumpets which signified the beginning and end of the sabbath. On the south side was the royal portico. covering the whole south side. So with this in account Jesus had to be talking about the priests gate in the tower. He being the divine Priest as well as those who would join him.

Another point i want to make here is that when Jesus dicusses the tree here we also understand the cultivation of the day. Tares and wheat grow together....tares are bitter and if harvested with the wheat and ingested causes dizziness. It is impossible to weed out the tares from the wheat when it grows but when the wheat is ripe for harvest, the wheat gets very heavy from the grain and the tares stand straight up.

The tares will be cut and then BURNED to ensure a hefty wheat harvest free of contamination. There are two different types of people being spoken of here. The same with fruit Trees. My father would cut and prune away much of what was a gorgeous tree, shrub, bush so that next spring it would bring forth more.

As a christian There are many roots not of God that we come to Him with. Some haveing bad fruit. Jesus with His consuming fire will destroy the bad tree, christians do their part with the true seed...The word of God destroys the old tree.

Usually in most churches the tree with the bad fruit will either end up leaving or get saved.

It is unfortunate that both grow in the same place and sometimes the tares cause trouble and the wheat leave. We want chuches full of wheat and not tares....

It is not that God will cast the christian into hell. patricia1

[Guest Biblicist]

Matthew 7:13 Enter into the straight gate for wide is the gate,and broad is the way,that leads to destruction,and MANY go there in.

Matthew 7:14 Because straight is the gate,and narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that find it.

Matthew 7:16a You shall know them by their fruits.

Matthew 7:18 A good tree can not bring forth evil fruit,neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Matthew 7:19 Every tree that does not bring forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire.

You claim you can profess Christ with no good fruit to show for it,but God's word says those hypocrites that profess his name and produce no good fruit are going to hell.

You people that teach others to sin by your OSAS doctrine and hyper grace teaching will have to answer to God for you treachery.

What about people who produce good fruits yet do not proclaim the name of Christ, or even deny he is the Christ. Just a "good guy". What of them? Will they enter the Kingdom of Heaven because of their works?

What about those that attend church every Sunday, pray all the time, Believe in God and Jesus, but do not understand nor have a personal relationship with Him?

What about David and Solomon and Abraham?

[Guest Biblicist]

Malachi 2:17 You have wearied the Lord with your words.Yet you say,how have we wearied him?When you say,Everyone that does evil is good in the sight of the Lord,and he delights in them; WHERE IS THE GOD OF JUDGMENT.

The teachers of OSAS and hyper grace teach this exact thing and God is wearied by it,he hates it.

He is a God of judgment,you can lie to yourselves and to others but God WILL NOT turn a blind eye to your sin,the day will come when you will have to answer not only for your sin but for the souls of those you have deceived with your words.

Romans 9

1 I speak the truth in Christ

[Guest Biblicist]

Romans 8

1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.

You left out the most important part of Romans 8:1 There is no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH,BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

(Edited by Moderator)

You are giving me a hard time about taking a verse out of context?

From nextbible.com

The earliest and best witnesses of the Alexandrian and Western texts, as well as a few others (א* B D* F G 6 1506 1739 1881 pc co), have no additional words for v. 1. Later scribes (A D¹Ψ 81 365 629 pc vg) added the words μὴ κατὰ σάρκα περιπατοῦσιν (mh kata sarka peripatousin, "who do not walk according to the flesh"), while even later ones (א² D² 33^vid

[Emily~Anne]

OK, here's the deal. The bible does not say we are at risk of losing our salvation, nor that we must produce good works in order to continue being saved. Either we are born again or we are not. IF we have never been born again, then we serve our sinful fleshy selves. If we are born again, then God is whom we serve. As soon as I was born again, it was like I was a whole new creature. And all the glory goes to God. If I am not a new creature, then I was never born again to begin with.

I know I am explaining this poorly, so if anyone would like to elaborate or if anyone would like to help me undertsand this more thoroughly, I would appreciate it, as I am learning myself. Especially on that verse in James. Can someone help me understand more about what is meant by faith without works is dead? I have almost grasped that, but not entirely. Let me say I am glad we have people who challenge false teachings and infuse the threads with truth.

[Guest Biblicist]

OK, here's the deal. The bible does not say we are at risk of losing our salvation, nor that we must produce good works in order to continue being saved. Either we are born again or we are not. IF we have never been born again, then we serve our sinful fleshy selves. If we are born again, then God is whom we serve. As soon as I was born again, it was like I was a whole new creature. And all the glory goes to God. If I am not a new creature, then I was never born again to begin with.

I know I am explaining this poorly, so if anyone would like to elaborate or if anyone would like to help me undertsand this more thoroughly, I would appreciate it, as I am learning myself. Especially on that verse in James. Can someone help me understand more about what is meant by faith without works is dead? I have almost grasped that, but not entirely. Let me say I am glad we have people who challenge false teachings and infuse the threads with truth.

Darling Emily Anne, you got it right.

If we continue on with Romans 8 you will see...

1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering.^[c] And so he condemned sin in sinful man,

4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

5 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.

6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace;

7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.

8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. 9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

12 Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation

[exrockstar]

IF we have never been born again, then we serve our sinful fleshy selves. If we are born again, then God is whom we serve.

you can't conclude that that easily.

many will be born again and still serve their flesh.

We don't know who is saved or not and we certainly cant go judge people by what their doing.

James 2 is a plead of a self-assesment.

"you believe in God? great. act like it."

Salvation requires Jesus Christ.

Notice verse 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that

[Emily~Anne]

Well my reasons for obedience to God are #1, I am a new creature! #2 refer to the first part of my siggy. #3 I TRUST God. I do not feel it is something I must do in order to 'maintain' my salvation. Jesus Christ already took care of that and THAT is where my faith is, NOT in my works! But, I have indeed sinned since I was made into a new creature by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in my heart. God has been there with me every step of the way and never left me,(and I SO am not worthy and deserving at all) though I did ignore him at times. He certainly is an awesome, patient and merciful God to his sheep!

1 John 3:1 How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God!...

[Guest Biblicist]

James 2

Favoritism Forbidden

1 My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don't show favoritism.

2 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in.

3 If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, "Here's a good seat for you," but say to the poor man, "You stand there" or "Sit on the floor by my feet,"

4 have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

5 Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him?

6 But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court?

7 Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong?

8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing right.

9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers.

10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

11 For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom,

13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!

Faith and Deeds

14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?

15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food.

16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it?

17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that