Tyler Posted April 20, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 222 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20, 2004 A must read! Divine Mercy! Only Christ Saves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boblandis Posted April 20, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 252 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,859 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 27 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/04/2001 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/16/1963 Share Posted April 20, 2004 I have two starting questions about this. The first one is praying to saints. You say true that only Christ saves. That means that Christ is the center of all worship. What does praying to (physically) dead saints who can't answer you, and maybe not even here you, edify your spiritual life verses sending those same prayers to a loving and caring God that hears and answers. Two, you use Matthew 16:18 to justify a pope by making Peter (stone) the rock (boulder) of the church. Why does this not coincide with 1st Corinthians 2:20 where Paul proclaims that Christ is the chief cornerstone of the Church? I am asking a favor of anyone other then Tyler replies to this. Please no Catholic bashing. It is unproductive and un-Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted April 20, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Re: Prayers to the saints. Basically the gist of it is this: The "saints" are in heaven with God. They are holy and they are glorified. Therefore, they are in a much better position to pray for you. If this is incorrect then our Catholic friends are free to correct me. There are a few problems with this, as I see it. First, the Bible calls all the believers saints. "Sainthood" is not given to a select group of persons on the basis of their piety or their having performed a certain number of miracles. Furthermore, a "saint" in the Bible has no more or less holiness than the next believer. The holiness of the saints is just Christ, and Christ alone. Second, there is no Biblical evidence that only a select few (And I write "select few" not because there are only a few "saints" in the RC - there are many of them - I write this in comparison to the number of believers throughout the centuries) "saints" have been given a special place in heaven by God. Third, the whole doctrinal teaching concerning prayers to the saints lends to the idea that any one believer is more special than another, which is absolutely unbiblical. Peter, Paul, Matthew, John, etc. were all just as frail and just as likely to sin as you or me. God may have selected them from among the human race to propagate His word, and to be instruments of His spread of the Gospel, and He probably did this because of certain trait characteristics. But that does not make them "special" in any way. God is just as likely to select others in the same way. The ideology of "sainthood" gives the common believer the idea that these persons in life were special in some way, and that further, in death they are even more special. This simply is not so. A saint in the Bible is anyone who has believed into the Lord Jesus Christ. Someone may consider it sacriligious for me to call another brother or sister a saint. But this is simply a fact according to the Bible. I am just as much a saint as "St. Matthew," or "St. John the Baptist." I would like our Catholic friends also explain why certain angels are referred to as saints, such as Michael the Archangel, for exmaple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile21 Posted April 23, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 23, 2004 A must read! Divine Mercy! Only Christ Saves Hi there! These thread has been open because "of my fault" and it's only logical for me to debate this issue but I won't, you know why? Because of Matt 12:31-32 : "For this reason I say unto you, every sin and injurious speaking shall be forgiven to men, but speaking injuriously of the Spirit shall not be forgiven to men. And whosoever shall have spoken a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age nor in the coming one". The sins committed against the Holy Spirit won't be forgiven probably because there is not enough penance for the person responsible for such sin. The sins against the Holy Spirit are those who slander His manifestations to us, in this chapter Jesus casts out demons and the pharisees accuse Him of working with the Devil's power so He teaches us that the sins against Him may be forgiven (that's why jews, muslims, mormons, etc.... can be saved) but the sins against the Holy Spirit won't be forgiven. If I debate this with you, because you have an anti-catholic stance you will probably commit a sin against the Holy Spirit and so I don't want to be responsible for such a thing because then both of our souls would be lost forever so I won't debate it. JEZU UFAM TOBIE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted April 23, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 222 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 23, 2004 A must read! Divine Mercy! Only Christ Saves Hi there! These thread has been open because "of my fault" and it's only logical for me to debate this issue but I won't, you know why? Because of Matt 12:31-32 : "For this reason I say unto you, every sin and injurious speaking shall be forgiven to men, but speaking injuriously of the Spirit shall not be forgiven to men. And whosoever shall have spoken a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age nor in the coming one". The sins committed against the Holy Spirit won't be forgiven probably because there is not enough penance for the person responsible for such sin. The sins against the Holy Spirit are those who slander His manifestations to us, in this chapter Jesus casts out demons and the pharisees accuse Him of working with the Devil's power so He teaches us that the sins against Him may be forgiven (that's why jews, muslims, mormons, etc.... can be saved) but the sins against the Holy Spirit won't be forgiven. If I debate this with you, because you have an anti-catholic stance you will probably commit a sin against the Holy Spirit and so I don't want to be responsible for such a thing because then both of our souls would be lost forever so I won't debate it. JEZU UFAM TOBIE The ONLY reason why you do not want to debate this is because this has so many HOLES in it, it is akin to having a screen door on a submarine!! I am not "anti" catholic", on a person to person basis, but have no pretentions of following "rome" and the "papacy"! This divine mercy is so ungodly and so UNBiblical that it makes ones hair stand on end! BTW, thanks Mobile for the tip! Only Christ Saves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sybil Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 A quote by Mother Angelica "We are ALL called to be GREAT saints" Saints are to looked to as examples. I am sorry for anyone who does not believe in divine mercy. Without His mercy and sacrifice, we would surely perish. I am also sorry, for anyone not believing in the offering of His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity for our sins. I also am saddened by the discounting of the Mother of God here. What's up with that? How can you profess belief in the divinity of Jesus? How, also, can you profess belief in life eternal? This is the strangest bunch of Christians I've ever encountered. Look to the upper room. Who do you see there? Look to the foot of the cross, who do you see? Please just put yourself back there and try to fathom. I know a Jewish man. He taught me some things. He is Catholic. He has learned his Judaism and didn't stop there. He came to believe in Yeshua. He came to understand the ultimate sacrifice. What if Mary would have gone against Gods will? She did not have to accept it. God choses us, He does not hold a gun to our heads. She said, "be it done to me according to thy will", did she not? Saint Gabriel pray for us. Don't doubt he can. Jesus said, ''forgive them, Father, they know not what they do" Mercy and Peace be with you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douay Posted May 5, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 287 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 39 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/09/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2004 Mobile, you can take it farther than that. I have read that passage this way: you are told the truth by God and call it the Devil's work. Is that not what happens here? People who do this are all blinded by the Holy Spirit, since they have committed the unforgivable sin, God, in His mercy blinds them so that they can't work their way any deeper into Hell by knowingly doing wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholas Posted May 6, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 250 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/24/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 6, 2004 taylor, Explain again why you think Catholics are damned because we think that God is DIVINE MERCY. Can anyone believe that this thread is slamming Gods divine mercy? And you call yourself a Christian. Do you think God likes that much? Mocking his divine mercy? g-guy, I think that you can go ahead and make a note of this, KNOWINGLY MOCKING GOD'S DIVINE MERCY IS AN UNFORGIVABLE SIN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sybil Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 "This divine mercy is so ungodly and so UNBiblical that it makes ones hair stand on end!" quote by tyler Divine Mercy is unbiblical? No, Tyler it is not. If ones hair is standing on end, it is not because of Divine Mercy. If one does not wish to participate in The Divine Mercy, just don't. I will soon be starting a new thread devoted to beautiful prayers. Get ready Tyler. You will have your work cut out for you. sybil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholas Posted May 6, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 250 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/24/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 6, 2004 The Sybil, I'm in for that thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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